Why on earth should I buy an IS-F?
01-18-08, 04:58 PM
#46
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: wa
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's a certain "price range" where once you go beyond that, it's like pennies. I see America has having four classes really. The poor, the "middle class", a blurry "upper middle" class, and then rich/uber-rich (yes, Bill Gates). The poor will buy used vehicles (CPO) for $10K or less, wishing they could buy a nice good car. The middle class will buy the vanilla mobiles (Camry, Accord, Malibu) for the $15-$25 category. the upper middle class will buy the fully load vanilla mobiles or dive into the luxury makes (Lexus, Cadillac, etc.) but buy the lower end models (ES, IS, perhaps GS). Then there is that "range" I was talking about which is probably in the $55K+. At this point, only the rich and uber-rich would even realistically consider vehicles like LS, M5, 760, etc.. Also, at this "level" in society, they tend to buy on brand loyalty, rather than price. The Beemer dude will always buy the M3 with his money for the "performance", the Lexus guy will always quote Lexus reliability, and then the rebels will get the Nissan GT-R and kick both the M3 and IS-F.
My definitions based on annual family income (gross), with home mortgage:
poor - $50K or less
middle - $50K-150K
upper middle $150K-200K
rich - $500K+
I know, what happened to $200-500k? there are none in between to make significant difference...
My definitions based on annual family income (gross), with home mortgage:
poor - $50K or less
middle - $50K-150K
upper middle $150K-200K
rich - $500K+
I know, what happened to $200-500k? there are none in between to make significant difference...
Wow these figures aren't even close to real. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States
Sorry but I'm make a living teaching folks to get their stock broker license and commonly refer to incomes/investment returns etc. so it's hard for me to let something like this go by. In the US the number of folks making above $100k is quit small. About 15% I believe.
I'm thinking that this car will probably sell to the 75K and up segment, about 26% of US households. Pretty interesting when you apply the income figures to this. Seems like both the M3 and LS-F are targeting a very small portion of the population. BTW this is exactly why all manufacturers try to get it under $100k for vehicles with any type of large scale production breakeven quotas. This type of misstep will and has cost CEO's their job (Volkswagen, Phaeton).The number of possible buyers shrinks dramatically and buying decisions are made on completely different data. E.g. this is the 4th or 5th vehicle and NOT the daily driver. Of course only Lexus really knows who they think iwill be their likely buyer.
01-18-08, 05:10 PM
#47
That's not going to matter very much. The 2009 CTS-V is going to outhandle the BMW M5, be softer riding due to the magnetic suspension, and be a bit quicker - high 11s in the quarter mile. And that's stock. Unfortunately, the IS-F isn't going to be in the same performance league as the new CTS-V. The outgoing model, yes, but not the new one.
01-18-08, 08:19 PM
#48
Lexus Test Driver
01-19-08, 12:54 AM
#49
...maybe they are trying to go against the m5,e55 instead of the m3, c63, IS-F, RS4....i dunno...blah...always going to be faster cars with more features and whatever...so to each their own...
01-19-08, 11:17 AM
#50
Sorry for being absent from this thread for a few days- I was out of town on business with no access to "unauthorized sites."
But I must say that I agree with Da Hapa and others who have argued for the virtues of rowing your own gears and not letting a computer do your work for you. If all you wanted to do was go fast, neither the IS-F nor the M3 would be the best idea (get a Fox Body Mustang and put another $5k into it!). However, with my money on the line, I think I would have to choose the M3 in this segment. I would put in my order and wait for my car to come as I specced it, rather than just take a car that was laying on the lot with $10k worth of options that I didn't want. I had expected that the M3 would outperform the IS, but the IS would come in $10k cheaper, but it looks like the price will be a wash (assuming you don't go nuts with the options). Of course I know that the Lexus will come with more standard options, and it will be more comfortable and reliable, but I just feel like the M3 will be the better car in the segment. Again, I don't want to sound like a BMW fanboi. I am not a blind brand loyalist- I have had almost 50 Lexi, and I didn't buy them just because they were Lexus cars- I bought them because in every instance I thought that they were better than every other car in their market segment. However, I just feel like BMW outdid Lexus on this one...
But I must say that I agree with Da Hapa and others who have argued for the virtues of rowing your own gears and not letting a computer do your work for you. If all you wanted to do was go fast, neither the IS-F nor the M3 would be the best idea (get a Fox Body Mustang and put another $5k into it!). However, with my money on the line, I think I would have to choose the M3 in this segment. I would put in my order and wait for my car to come as I specced it, rather than just take a car that was laying on the lot with $10k worth of options that I didn't want. I had expected that the M3 would outperform the IS, but the IS would come in $10k cheaper, but it looks like the price will be a wash (assuming you don't go nuts with the options). Of course I know that the Lexus will come with more standard options, and it will be more comfortable and reliable, but I just feel like the M3 will be the better car in the segment. Again, I don't want to sound like a BMW fanboi. I am not a blind brand loyalist- I have had almost 50 Lexi, and I didn't buy them just because they were Lexus cars- I bought them because in every instance I thought that they were better than every other car in their market segment. However, I just feel like BMW outdid Lexus on this one...
I suggest that you try both and let us know your opinion.
Seeing how Evo mag apsolutly adored their IS-F test, Lexus definetly did their thing. Dont expect them to get the street cred of M3 which had 30yrs to build that but nevertheless, it seems they built an awesome car.
Also, big plus for IS-F compared to other Lexuses is that you chose the gears directly, not just top gear like in LS460. Thats why all Europeans mags that I read loved the transmission.
But again, if you are serious with buying one, drive it and then form your opinion.
01-19-08, 12:28 PM
#51
In the BMW world, a real enthusiast will choose the 335 coupe or the upcoming 135 coupe and mod it (Dinan and Vishnu have nice chips that give around 390HP, add a an intake, an exhaust, some throttle bodies and other various bits and you are way past 400HP with the torque that goes with it), it will be lighter, cheaper, sleeper and really unique.
In the Lexus world a old SC400 with TT will do the trick !
In the Lexus world a old SC400 with TT will do the trick !
01-19-08, 07:57 PM
#52
Lexus Test Driver
SAAB9-3,
Have you driven the IS-F yet? A handful of us did today at the race track, and I highly recommend driving this car before making your decision. It looks like you have plenty of daily drivers, so comfort on roads is not going to be the biggest priority for you I assume. They really did meet all of their development objectives with this vehicle. There is a lot of grip, amazing throttle response and the suspension/drivetrain is track-ready. The transmission works excellent on the race track and is much smoother than the current SMG (even though we are comparing an auto vs manual, it is still relevant because the shift-times of the 8-speed equal that of a Ferrari megneti mareli F1 box).
Obviously even without driving it, I know the new M3 will be an outstanding car as it always is. You are not going to go wrong with either car honestly. I must say the IS-F is definitely on par with the competition in its class.
Have you driven the IS-F yet? A handful of us did today at the race track, and I highly recommend driving this car before making your decision. It looks like you have plenty of daily drivers, so comfort on roads is not going to be the biggest priority for you I assume. They really did meet all of their development objectives with this vehicle. There is a lot of grip, amazing throttle response and the suspension/drivetrain is track-ready. The transmission works excellent on the race track and is much smoother than the current SMG (even though we are comparing an auto vs manual, it is still relevant because the shift-times of the 8-speed equal that of a Ferrari megneti mareli F1 box).
Obviously even without driving it, I know the new M3 will be an outstanding car as it always is. You are not going to go wrong with either car honestly. I must say the IS-F is definitely on par with the competition in its class.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Weapon F
IS F (2008-2014)
38
04-30-17 05:37 PM
