Mr Johnson

I don't think that there is any buzz to keep alive. Beyond a very, very select group of people I think there is almost no recognition out in the general populace that the IS-F is coming. I certainly don't think folks are waiting with baited breath either. Everyone else has shown their cards by now. If they have cards to show they need to start releasing dribbles of information that will knock people out.

Let's pretend for a minute:

1) Announce HP in the 440 or above range and capture everyones attention (You are competing with both the M3 and C63). Can't do that? Then announce 425 or above. You are smack dab in the middle. Can't do that? Well then I'm not going to be happy you "spoofed" me because you are not announcing anything exciting. You are announcing what is expected or less.
2) Pretend you made me happy with 1 above. Now announce the price. Both your competitors are out there already. 53K base and knock my socks off. 55K and it's still very interesting. 60K or above? Forget about it. Nothing special to see here. You want to compete for someones wallet other than mine.
3) Now you finally have the test drives come in. Since you've slowly dribbled the information out and the test drives come back as "better than the M3/AMG" you have now officially knocked people out and they line up waiting for a place in line to buy it. The editors say it's better than one of the M/AMG pair but worse than the other? Well that's alright. First time out Lexus represents and with the other two factors (lower price, higher HP) has something to trumpet. Watch people line up as well in spite of the "unqiue" exhaust! ;-) Lose to them both and it's another "about what I expected". The die-hard will line up but it won't be a "smash". Lose badly and even the die-hards won't line up.

That strategy spread out over the past 12 months (Jan 07 when it was first announce to Jan 08 when it goes on sale) would be much more interesting than the strategy Lexus/Toyota seem to prefer. My problem with their strategy is they attempt to build tension and excitement but the actual announcement typically causes me to be underwhelmed.

There has been a lot of speculation that 1000 units is way too low. If the IS-F hits with the overall HP, performance and pricing it is. If not I see it not selling much more than the GS430 which isn't much more than 1K a year anyway. If Lexus is happy with that, great! I would hope they are shooting higher.

MrJohnson "still hoping to be pleasantly surprised"

Gojirra99

2008 Mercedes C63 AMG will have a peak output of 451-hp and a maximum torque of 443 lb-ft. . . . . . based on the reviews we've seen so far, it handles better than the previous C55 AMG too . . .

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

From MB's website:
I'd say Lexus isn't even in that ballpark at nearly 100 hp shy of the competition, but sticker is also another $25k - $35k over the IS-F too.

Curb weight is also 4035 lbs. It's a real pig around a corner with 7.96 lbs/hp so it will likely accelerate VERY hard.

If Lexus kept the exact same weight my IS350 has (3620) and only makes 415 hp, it's 8.72 lbs/hp. Respectable, but still a little disappointing. It needs 454.8 hp to equal the MB in power to weight.

Gojirra99

That's the E63 AMG ^^, I think the C63 AMG is the direct competitor of the IS-F

Ramon

The E63 is not competing with the IS-F, the C63 is which has 451HP, not 507 like the E... Which puts the IS-F 36HP shy.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Not finding anything on MB's website about the C63. Has this car been officially announced like the IS-F?

Ramon

Yes

http://www.carupdate.com.au/1090/amg...pecifications/

Gojirra99

Yes, & here's one review, from Edmunds : http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...0/pageNumber=1

Carbman

Start with the detuned 5.0L in the LS 600hl, add performance heads, free flow exhausts and performance tuning and only get a 6.7% bump in hp. Heck, Briggs and Stratton can do that. I am hoping the sources of the 415 rumor are either out of the loop or marketing has floated a lowball number so that everyone will be happy when the actual hp is announced. If they come in with a hp number that splits the difference between the M3 and C63 AMG and undercuts both in price they have a winner from a marketing standpoint.

flipside909

It's coming. Trust me on this.

*wishlist*

i finally got to see the is-f today and it looks greaaat! like they say, the pictures make it look different, but wow! which thread is this now? ah yes... the guy also told me 415hp/350tq. 0-60 in 4.9. only colors will be red, white, and blue. i asked him to fire it up and he told me he would but the battery was dead. also said that msrp should be between $50-60k. i think those answers were just what he what told to say. also, most of the people that i saw that came to look at the car didn't even know about it. i think it's hot but my better half says that "it's too small like a sports car and why would i need that?"... haha... can't wait to see the first drives in the mags. when's that going to be flipside909?

flipside909

Yep...those guys have limited knowledge of the car. Funny you mention the battery being dead, the car sits in a warehouse in headquarters most of the time. When I saw the car last a few months ago in Torrance, I started it and the battery definitely had a dead cell. I even have a video clip of the initial startup of the car and the dreaded...tick tick tick noise kept the car from turning over. I've never bothered to post it because it obviously isn't fun to watch other than the blue needles sweeping the face of the tach and speedo during startup. October is about the time we should start seeing drive articles in the mass media.

Mr Johnson

I believe it and I trust you. My point is some of this info is about 3-6 months too late in coming, that's all.

TRDFantasy

Seems like a lot of worrying over a small bit of speculation. I think that the 415HP number is wrong . The 2UR-GSE 5.0L V8 is capable of MUCH more than that.

Historically, when Toyota is very quiet about a new model, that usually means they have a surprise in store for the market. Toyota was very quiet about the current Avalon when it was released years ago, and that ended up having a whopper of an engine (3.5L GR V6). Toyota kept very quiet about the Tundra, which also ended up having a whopper of an engine (5.7L UR V8) not to mention a lot of other things people were not expecting, like a 10,800 max towing capacity or the CrewMax.

A lot of numbers were thrown around before the IS350 came out, and people were anxious with anticipation, and then when official specs were out, everyone was happily surprised that the car had a whopper of an engine, a 306HP V6 with very good fuel economy.

Some of you are jumping to conclusions that Toyota is already "too late" in releasing IS-F info. My strong feeling is that we will be in for a surprise when IS-F specs are released, and yet another surprise when we learn how it drives. If the IS-F surprises the market, a lot of anticipation and demand will build up for it, and the competition won't be expecting it. IMHO a much better strategy in terms of releasing the vehicle compared to giving us info now when the car won't be out for months and months.

I don't even mind of the car is delayed a bit. Good, because it will only give more time for Lexus to tune the vehicle at Fuji Speedway and other race tracks.

If by the off-chance the IS-F comes with 415HP, then I agree with everyone it will be a BIG miss by Toyota and off the mark definitely.

I also believe as we get close to the car's release, we will see a very interesting marketing campaign from Lexus and Team One. After all, this a new sub-brand for Lexus and the IS-F is the first car to be released under the sub-brand. The marketing will have to be something special to catch people's attention. I am confident Team One and Lexus will give us something amazing, like the LS hybrid commercial.

flipside909

Lexus is commited to "kaizen", their continuous improvement in vehicle development. "The Pursuit of Perfection" is their slogan...and being this is their first serious entry to the niche market, they are strategically getting things done and making sure everything is right. When it's finally available to the public, I can assure everyone that this car will make a mark in Lexus history.

BTW, I did confirm with my sources, the 415 hp number was a made up number which is NOT the final official output.