Tiptronic mode problem---Help!!!
04-11-09, 08:57 AM
#16
Except, you don't.
If I'm going 20 miles per hour, but I want the transmission in 4th, I have absolutely no power to make it do that.
The sport mode only -ever- controls the maximum gear the car is allowed to use.
It offers 0 direct control over shifts or gear selection, other than when you put it all the way down to 1, in which case the TCU has no options but to keep the car in 1st gear.
If you are in S mode, and have '4' in the display, it doesn't mean you're in 4th, it means that 4th is the highest gear you're allowing the TCU to shift into.
The car will not hold any gear at all, other than 1 if you force it to only have the option of 1.
It will continue to shift, automatically, all on its own, within whatever range you allow it in S mode.
A true SMG on the other hand in "manual" mode will not shift, ever, unless you tell it to. And it will hold every single gear to redline until you tell it not to. When you shift with a paddle you're electronically actuating a clutch to initiate a shift.
That's why our transmission isn't anything even remotely like an SMG, and you never shift it. With our cars when you move the paddle you're just changing how many different possible gears the car can be in, and the TCU will put it in whatever one, within that entire range, is most appropriate for the speed and throttle input.
If I'm going 20 miles per hour, but I want the transmission in 4th, I have absolutely no power to make it do that.
The sport mode only -ever- controls the maximum gear the car is allowed to use.
It offers 0 direct control over shifts or gear selection, other than when you put it all the way down to 1, in which case the TCU has no options but to keep the car in 1st gear.
If you are in S mode, and have '4' in the display, it doesn't mean you're in 4th, it means that 4th is the highest gear you're allowing the TCU to shift into.
The car will not hold any gear at all, other than 1 if you force it to only have the option of 1.
It will continue to shift, automatically, all on its own, within whatever range you allow it in S mode.
A true SMG on the other hand in "manual" mode will not shift, ever, unless you tell it to. And it will hold every single gear to redline until you tell it not to. When you shift with a paddle you're electronically actuating a clutch to initiate a shift.
That's why our transmission isn't anything even remotely like an SMG, and you never shift it. With our cars when you move the paddle you're just changing how many different possible gears the car can be in, and the TCU will put it in whatever one, within that entire range, is most appropriate for the speed and throttle input.
Koz
04-11-09, 11:49 AM
#17
We all know you do not have control of when the trans up-shifts, but you do have complete control over the max gear and therefore can use the engine's power curve to help in several driving situations, as cited in my other post. You can hold any gear, in the S mode! Just select the max gear of choice and accelerate till you hit the rev limiter (not gear limiter). IT WILL NOT UP-SHIFT PAST THE SET GEAR!
Koz
Koz
It means you can select gear X, and the car -stays- in gear X no matter your speed or the throttle input.
That's not possible with the paddles except for 1st gear.
The paddles will let you prevent it from going -higher- than whatever other gear you pick, but it won't keep it from going lower.
If the paddles -actually- let you "hold a gear" you'd be able to get a useful dyno graph across the rpm range, instead of just from 3500-4000 and up for example.
04-11-09, 12:34 PM
#18
Pole Position
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That isn't what holding a gear means.
It means you can select gear X, and the car -stays- in gear X no matter your speed or the throttle input.
That's not possible with the paddles except for 1st gear.
The paddles will let you prevent it from going -higher- than whatever other gear you pick, but it won't keep it from going lower.
If the paddles -actually- let you "hold a gear" you'd be able to get a useful dyno graph across the rpm range, instead of just from 3500-4000 and up for example.
It means you can select gear X, and the car -stays- in gear X no matter your speed or the throttle input.
That's not possible with the paddles except for 1st gear.
The paddles will let you prevent it from going -higher- than whatever other gear you pick, but it won't keep it from going lower.
If the paddles -actually- let you "hold a gear" you'd be able to get a useful dyno graph across the rpm range, instead of just from 3500-4000 and up for example.
Please stop using those annoying hyphens around words. There is an option to bold them if you wish.
04-11-09, 12:47 PM
#19
-The- -transmission- -does- ---indeed--- downshift instantly when you flip the paddle. Yes it does have to go through the ECU but if you ---think--- , the paddle is not mechanical, so it makes sense.
Please stop using those annoying hyphens around words. There is an option to bold them if you wish.
Please stop using those annoying hyphens around words. There is an option to bold them if you wish.
The transmission does NOT instantly downshift when you flip the paddle. That's how an SMG works, not our cars.
If you've got it set to "4" and you're going 20 miles per hour with partial throttle input, moving the paddle so that the display changes to 3 does not cause a downshift.
Hence, the paddles don't directly control the transmission at all, otherwise the downshift paddle would, ya know, downshift.
The only time it downshifts is if you -happen- to be in the highest allowable gear at the moment you hit the paddle, at which point the TCU then says 'Hey, I can't be in this gear anymore, I better move to the next highest gear I'm allowed" and the car will then trigger a downshift.
Go drive an IS-F (or porsche or a number of other cars) sometime if you wanna see what actually downshifting with a paddle looks and feels like.
04-12-09, 02:40 PM
#20
Now you're debating my grammar? Really?
The transmission does NOT instantly downshift when you flip the paddle. That's how an SMG works, not our cars.
If you've got it set to "4" and you're going 20 miles per hour with partial throttle input, moving the paddle so that the display changes to 3 does not cause a downshift.
Hence, the paddles don't directly control the transmission at all, otherwise the downshift paddle would, ya know, downshift.
The only time it downshifts is if you -happen- to be in the highest allowable gear at the moment you hit the paddle, at which point the TCU then says 'Hey, I can't be in this gear anymore, I better move to the next highest gear I'm allowed" and the car will then trigger a downshift.
Go drive an IS-F (or porsche or a number of other cars) sometime if you wanna see what actually downshifting with a paddle looks and feels like.
The transmission does NOT instantly downshift when you flip the paddle. That's how an SMG works, not our cars.
If you've got it set to "4" and you're going 20 miles per hour with partial throttle input, moving the paddle so that the display changes to 3 does not cause a downshift.
Hence, the paddles don't directly control the transmission at all, otherwise the downshift paddle would, ya know, downshift.
The only time it downshifts is if you -happen- to be in the highest allowable gear at the moment you hit the paddle, at which point the TCU then says 'Hey, I can't be in this gear anymore, I better move to the next highest gear I'm allowed" and the car will then trigger a downshift.
Go drive an IS-F (or porsche or a number of other cars) sometime if you wanna see what actually downshifting with a paddle looks and feels like.
Apparently you don't think there is anything good about this trans. It would be great if we had control of the up-shifts and being able hold higher gears but this trans is one of the best (regular) trans' out there. I've spanked many equally powered cars with manual trans' because of the precision shifting of this trans.
Koz
04-12-09, 04:16 PM
#21
You begin by insisting it'll always downshift when paddle down... that's flatly false. It will NOT downshift if you're already in a lower than max gear.
I've explained this 3 times already so I'm not sure a 4th will help you but I'll give it a shot.
If you have 4 as the max gear (default for S mode) and you are doing 20 miles an hour, your car isn't actually -in- 4th gear...the "4" on the display isn't the gear you're in, it's the max gear... likely it's in 2nd...and paddling down to set the max for 3 won't downshift the car since it's still in the allowed gear range.
You can't -ever- tell the car to "downshift"
All you can do is tell the car to stop using a specific gear range, and SOME of the time a downshift will happen as a result because it no longer has access to the gear it's in anymore.
That's vastly different from being able to downshift with a paddle touch, like a real tiptronic or SMG would do (or even the IS-F can do)
Apparently you don't think there is anything good about this trans. It would be great if we had control of the up-shifts and being able hold higher gears but this trans is one of the best (regular) trans' out there. I've spanked many equally powered cars with manual trans' because of the precision shifting of this trans.
Koz
Koz
On the contrary, the transmission is an excellent -automatic- transmission... but if you're looking to "spank" anyone in a race (all else being equal), leaving it in D is the smarter choice rather than trying the impossible task of "shifting" with the paddle shifters that don't actually shift.
Holding out comparisons to manuals is even sillier since, as I've noted elsewhere, manuals are ancient relics not long for the world... want the fastest Porsche? no clutch pedal. It's a very imprecise and a hard to repeat perfectly way to shift.
The paddle shifters can be quite useful for something like going down a mountain, and limiting your top gear to keep from burning up your brakes in such a situation.
For racing? Leave it in D and you'll beat the guy who keeps thinking the paddles actually shift the car every time. The computer is a lot faster, and better, than you are.
If you want to experience a paddle shift that actually -is- responsive, I suggest you go take an IS-F for a test drive. You'll realize how non responsive the ISx50 paddles are to actually "shifting" anything.
Last edited by Kurtz; 04-12-09 at 04:55 PM.
04-13-09, 07:51 PM
#22
You begin by insisting it'll always downshift when paddle down... that's flatly false. It will NOT downshift if you're already in a lower than max gear.
I've explained this 3 times already so I'm not sure a 4th will help you but I'll give it a shot.
If you have 4 as the max gear (default for S mode) and you are doing 20 miles an hour, your car isn't actually -in- 4th gear...the "4" on the display isn't the gear you're in, it's the max gear... likely it's in 2nd...and paddling down to set the max for 3 won't downshift the car since it's still in the allowed gear range.
You can't -ever- tell the car to "downshift"
All you can do is tell the car to stop using a specific gear range, and SOME of the time a downshift will happen as a result because it no longer has access to the gear it's in anymore.
On the contrary, the transmission is an excellent -automatic- transmission... but if you're looking to "spank" anyone in a race (all else being equal), leaving it in D is the smarter choice rather than trying the impossible task of "shifting" with the paddle shifters that don't actually shift.
Holding out comparisons to manuals is even sillier since, as I've noted elsewhere, manuals are ancient relics not long for the world... want the fastest Porsche? no clutch pedal. It's a very imprecise and a hard to repeat perfectly way to shift.
The paddle shifters can be quite useful for something like going down a mountain, and limiting your top gear to keep from burning up your brakes in such a situation.
For racing? Leave it in D and you'll beat the guy who keeps thinking the paddles actually shift the car every time. The computer is a lot faster, and better, than you are.
If you want to experience a paddle shift that actually -is- responsive, I suggest you go take an IS-F for a test drive. You'll realize how non responsive the ISx50 paddles are to actually "shifting" anything.
I've explained this 3 times already so I'm not sure a 4th will help you but I'll give it a shot.
If you have 4 as the max gear (default for S mode) and you are doing 20 miles an hour, your car isn't actually -in- 4th gear...the "4" on the display isn't the gear you're in, it's the max gear... likely it's in 2nd...and paddling down to set the max for 3 won't downshift the car since it's still in the allowed gear range.
You can't -ever- tell the car to "downshift"
All you can do is tell the car to stop using a specific gear range, and SOME of the time a downshift will happen as a result because it no longer has access to the gear it's in anymore.
On the contrary, the transmission is an excellent -automatic- transmission... but if you're looking to "spank" anyone in a race (all else being equal), leaving it in D is the smarter choice rather than trying the impossible task of "shifting" with the paddle shifters that don't actually shift.
Holding out comparisons to manuals is even sillier since, as I've noted elsewhere, manuals are ancient relics not long for the world... want the fastest Porsche? no clutch pedal. It's a very imprecise and a hard to repeat perfectly way to shift.
The paddle shifters can be quite useful for something like going down a mountain, and limiting your top gear to keep from burning up your brakes in such a situation.
For racing? Leave it in D and you'll beat the guy who keeps thinking the paddles actually shift the car every time. The computer is a lot faster, and better, than you are.
If you want to experience a paddle shift that actually -is- responsive, I suggest you go take an IS-F for a test drive. You'll realize how non responsive the ISx50 paddles are to actually "shifting" anything.
Use the display button on the steering wheel to select the gear position mode and use the S mode on the shift selector. If you select 5th as the max gear and drive on level ground from a stop, you will see the trans up-shift through the gears until you get into 5th. You will also see the tack drop every time it up-shifts. Then paddle down one gear at a time and every time you paddle down the trans downshifts one gear that is indicated on the display and simultaneously the RPM rise. You can downshift until the lower gear’s max speed is exceeded. The computer for the trans will not allow the trans to downshift until some speed has been shed. If you select any gear in the S mode the trans will not shift past that gear, so you can control the power band by downshifting until you bring the RPM up to give you peek power and strong engine breaking.
I never said I used the paddles or even S mode to accelerate. I know fully well how to go fast. This month I made a 13.4 pass, with just a JoeZ and a Greedy cat back.
I’ve driven the ISF and don’t feel it is worth the money or any of it’s competitors (M3,RS,C63). For a lot less money you can’t touch the modded EVOs and Subies. The aftermarket is incredible, these cars can make serious power and can handle great. They are capable of humbling very fast cars.
If you want REAL performance get a bike. For a fraction of the cost of an average new car, there are several bikes that you would need over a thousand HP car to just run with them. It’s not unusual for these bikes to get a hundred MPH out of first gear and you can do it all day long. Insane Power!
Koz
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