Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Performance doesn't always determine class. The problem with people here is that they are comparing current models to future ones. I can almost guarantee the next-gen S4 will have the same power as the upcoming M3 and IS-F with the next RS-4 pulling up with around 500hp. Here are the current classes as they stand TODAY.

A4 2.0t, 328i, IS250, C230/C280

A4 3.2, 335i, IS350, C350

S4, M3, C55

RS4 (class all on its own)

 

BINGO!

 

yah i dunno, i havent heard anything about a new RS4. i think everyone trying to use the old M3 as the benchmark is what is throwing everyone off. the old M3 fits very nicely in between the S4 and RS4. as far as price, the M3 cannot be had for its base price of 48k or something. almost all M3s (i think by now all new ones are gone) went for 64-68 and dealers do not deal on M cars (i tried, got 500 bucks off, nothing really). also, when i looked in 2005 all the M3s that came over came standard with the competition package. even though it was in the last year of production, prices stayed high with "standard" options. the S4 can be had for 55 or less brand new. so even pricewise the M3 was in between the S4 and RS4. using the M3 as a benchmark, the RS4 is kind of in a class of its own throughout all brands.

 

a $10k used LS1 Fbody will spank an IS350 all day and night, I guess it must be in a higher class??

 

IMO, a RWD and a AWD should never be classed together, just like sedans and SUV's shouldn't.

 

That is the dumbest comment I have ever read. OH NOES... you can buy a Sports car used car thats faster than a new IS350... for less!

They are not in the same class, and I am not trying to put them in the same class.

The AWD 4K lbs monster known as the S4 isnt in the same class an M3. If performance/handling is a yard stick in that class.

And if performance is a yardstick in that class of M3/C55 and S4... why wouldnt the IS350 qualify? It goes through R&Ts 700 Ft slalom quicker than the S4. And beats the S4 in QM time and 0-60.

What I am trying to say is... In a class where luxury and performance are key.... why would the S4 be considered in the class of the M3 and the C55. When clearly the IS350 is not? What is the difference maker? Its not handling

How are you differentiating the class that the IS350/335I are in... with the class that the M3/C55 are in.

 

price, prestige, heritage..... duh.......

 

You make no sense at all.

1. Clearly you haven't read any of the posts on here. An s4 and an M3 are NOT in the same price range. If its price that determines car classes, then why not compare an sc430 to an m3...after all, theyre both around 65,000. Price is not what determines class bud, sorry.

2. Prestige? Wtf...Even if that were true, are you telling me that lexus doesnt have enough prestige as BMW or AUDI? you must be joking...

3. Heritage? What does heritage have to do with anything. Were comparing cars here..Heritage doesn't mean S***. How does an s4 have any heritage close to an M3. Those two cars are so far apart.


The fact of the matter is, The IS350 isn't considered or even compared with the S4, and the M3/C55 are because people and car magazines don't believe that japanese brands are up to german standards. The think that maybe japanese companies can make fast cars like the EVO/STI, but that they cant combine, class, performance, and luxery into one vehicle as the germans have done in the past. Due to this, the IS350 is very underrated, and its dissapointing. Hopefully, the IS-F will bring an end to this misconception, because clearly, the IS350 is everything the s4 is, AND more.

 

1. You're making MY point. Performance does NOT determine class....

2. Are you kidding me?? Maybe in your own little world Lexus=BMW=MB, but to the rest of the realworld they are "worlds" apart... Hell, just 2 years some "Lexus" cars were being sold in Japan as Toyotas......... duh.......
I'm sure the guy in the CLS63/S55/M5/S8 would agree that Lexus is on par LOL...

3. The IS350 and maybe the sc430/sc400 have been the "sportiest" cars that Lexus has EVER produced, BMW and Audi have been producing the M3/M5/S4/RS4 for how long now?? Until a few years ago, sporty Lexus was an oxymoron...

I"m sorry if this is your first Lexus and you feel like you're on top of the world, but in many parts of the world our beloved Lexus is still called a toyota....

 

Actually this is my 6th lexus..

And do you honestly think that BMW is better than lexus?

 

Doesnt anyone have a real answer? Instead of a joke answer.

Yeah, the Chi and the Aura that surrounds the car... thats why its in the same category as the M3... but the IS350 isnt.

What distinguishes the S4 from the IS350... that puts the S4 in the class of the M3? Aside from the Chi around the car.

 

Do you guys realize that the S4 was faster around the Top Gear test track than an M3?

 

Any more info on this?
What type of course was this? According to their test, the RX-8 is just as fast as the M3
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps.shtml

... but somehow the Lotus Elise is left in the dust by an Audi TT and an RX8

 

Sure. They were all tested on the same day under the same conditions. The only constants in Top Gear's tests are the driver and the track. Everything else is up for grabs. Not only that, but not all the OEMs spec decent rubber on their cars, and there is absolutely nothing more important than the tires. Indeed, if I were to set up a spec racing series to guarantee spectacular racing, I'd make everyone run the exact same tires and let them do what they will to the rest of the car because nothing limits performance the way tires do.

 

I dont see how the elise is left in the dust like that. 1.35.6 around that track.. when an RX-8 and 350z gets around it in 131.8? Unless its got a lot of straight aways and large sweeping turns to keep speeds very high.

In a race with a lot of turns the Elise should best any of those cars(the 8 and the 350).

Are they taking time to learn the car? Or is it once around the track... and we are done?