Alberta07

Hi Guys,
Just about to finalize my decision on purchasing a new or newer 450H. I currently own a BMW X3 and am absolutely done with this vehicle. I'm embarrassed on how much money I've spent in repairs on that thing! Anyway I drive between 35000-40000kms a year and was reading that in colder climates the hybrid isn't nearly as fuel efficient than if i was driving in a more moderate climate. I live in Alberta and was wondering if this would negate any of the beneifts a hybrid offers? I drive around 60% city/40% highway. Any feedback would be appreciated.

dug320

Where are you driving in the Rose Province?

kitlz

Welcome to CL, Alberta07. Short answer to your question, it depends. Yes, mileage will suffer in the winter. The 450h runs most efficiently when the engine is warm. Short trips and hills, regardless of temperature, also affects mileage. It's still north of 20+ MPG. Once it warms above 50 degrees, it starts to increase. There are many more benefits to driving the 450h other than mileage. The RXh is very reliable, offers some cool options, has a 20 more HPs than the gas RX, and will make you smile when you drive it.

Droid13

I guess the first thing to consider above all else is, what is your definition of "worth it". It can be remarkably different for each person.

Like all vehicles, hybrids are not as fuel efficient during the winter, much worse when most winter trips are short/engine does not warm up fully, and perform at their best in mild temperatures. You will see savings, but the longer you run with a warm engine or in mild temps, the better your results will be in the H over the regular RX. It seems you drive quite a bit every year, so hopefully your individual trips are long enough that you spend a majority of time driving with a warm engine.

If you do go new, note that starting with the '13 RX350, it can run on regular, but the RX450H requires premium. If your "premium for premium" is anything like it is here in Ontario, that alone could eat into most of your savings (some people do run the H on regular though, with no complaints) . On the plus side, brakes should last 2 to 4 times longer on the H so that could save a lot of money if you keep the vehicle through what would require some brake replacements on the 350.

If its just about the money, it could be a challenge to recoup the extra cost of a hybrid depending on the above. For many people, its not (just) about the money. Some people like the environmental statement of using less oil (but in Alberta, I suppose that's blasphemy ). I personally prefer the smooth power delivery of the hybrid system, been driving them for almost 7 yrs, can't stand automatics anymore. Others need to feel the up and down revving of the engine though the gears and don't like the continuous power output of the hybrid. I also like the sport of chasing the best fuel economy, others don't care about that, just want to see good results with normal driving. The Canadian hybrid premium on the RX is not cheap, so it's a challenge to recoup just based on money (although the RXh does come better equipped). It will also require planning to keep the vehicle for quite a while. The good news on that is, it should be far more reliable than your X3. You might want to consider if any of the non-monetary benefits has value to you as well.

vlad_a

Prior to picking up my RX450h, I calculated if the premium price tag over regular RX350 would be worth it in the long term. I factored-in lower interest rates offered for RX350, which are n/a for RX450h in US. I added the extra interest I would pay on the difference that would have otherwise went to the mortgage. The end result was not favorable for the RX450h, even in the best driving conditions.
However, just like Andy, I can't stand regular automatics and I love EV technology. So, for me, the hybrid was was as close as I could get to an EV and as far as I could get away from a regular auto transmission, since, technically, there isn't one. Of course, coming from a Prius, it also made logical sense.

Living up North, it may ease your mind knowing that when you're warming up your vehicle, some of the energy generated is being stored in the battery, so you're not completely wasting fuel. I also find that due to the nature of electric motors and their torque curve (or flat line), the hybrid starts better from a stand still in the snow. I originally noticed it in the Prius.

dug320

Alberta is not only flat but mountainous. Based on my experience the hybrid transmission makes a huge difference in performance as in a hill climb it is not continuously shifting between 3rd and 4th or 2nd and 3rd. Coming downhill the recharge braking makes the vehicle easier to handle.

I did notice longer trips in cold weather improved performance. But have yet to use the car below -15C, I suspect the performance will not change.

Super Blue

Short answer, Yes, while the 450h won't be as efficient in the cold weather, the regular 350 would be even worse on cold starts. Plus if it's being sold in Alberta it most likely will be offered with a block heater, and plugging in the block heater makes a difference compared to a straight cold start.
I always noticed better warmup and better mpg when I lived in Winnipeg and had my Jeep TJ with the 4L.
Given the amount you drive per year, I am sure you will see a difference.

vlad_a

Speaking of warm-ups, RX450h has Exhaust Heat Recovery that uses exhaust heat to warm up the engine quicker. It's a great feature to have in a cold climate. My RX warms up real fast compared to my IS.

Poisson

My insurance company offers a substantial discount for hybrids - much lower premiums on my new 450h compared with the old RX350. It might be worth seeing what's available in your area.

vlad_a

Interesting point... I ran a quote and the RX350 was almost identical in price for my area and ins co.

markrivers

It's hard to have a universal definition of " worth it", especially in a forum for premium cars and SUVs..
If you're looking at it from a simple point of view like savings on gas..then it's not worth it..it will take you years to recover the 5,000 difference.

Anyway, We have a 2011 RX 350 and a 2011 toyota prius ( Four).
When the time comes to upgrade, i'm strongly comsidering the 450h simply because i like the hybrid technology.

watch37

Keep in mind that everyone's situation is different, and what might qualify as "worth it" to one person may not be worth it to another. However, having said that, my two year ownership of a pre-owned 2010 RX 450h was worth it to me. I purchased it for a relatively low price, drove it for about 25,000 miles, and then traded it in for $3,700 less than what I bought it for. Assuming the truck that I owned before would have depreciated over the same two year period that I owned the 450h (I'd say at least $2,000, conservatively) plus savings on gas over my old truck, I basically drove the 450h for free for those two years.

Alberta07

Thanks so much guys for the responses (I was under the impression that I would be sent an email when someone replied to my thread but I guess I'll need to check my profile settings.

Anyway I've decided to take the plunge and am flying out to Vancouver in the morning to pick up my 2011 RX450h. I'm pretty excited to one, begin driving a hybrid and two finally be done with the costly repairs on the BMW. My first reason in choosing Lexus was of course the reliability and second because the hybrid technology seems to be first rate (and Andy don't worry I'll be able to sleep well at night knowing that based on km's I drive I'm still doing my part to contribute to the Alberta economy!).

I will say though that the couple sales people I spoke with really hadn't heard of the reduced performance in the winter. Their argument was that when the vehicle first starts its the electric motor running and heats up faster than what a typical gas motor could achieve in similar time period. EIther way it appears that my winter driving won't be too affected (majority of my trips aren't too short; 20-30mins).

I would also agree with the comments on resale value. I couldn't find a newer 450 in all of Alberta and when I did find one they don't seem to last long. Either way I think I will be way better off than my current situation. Thanks again for all the advice!

Cruiter

James, you should really enjoy your new car (h) . With the amount of time on your commute you should definitely enjoy the reasons you chose what you did. When you have a chance post a photo or two of your new family member.

Yep, it has a very reliable rep and I'm pretty sure it will be more high tech than you even imagined. Check back with a 'drove it home' report .

dug320

Enjoy the Coquihalla.