kitlz

Congrats on finishing your first trip in the 450h. For some of us that's the daily commute It looks like you're on the way to getting great mileage right from the start. Imagine how much better it might be in 10 years when you hit 5K Alright , I'll stop. I have a 10 mile drive to work myself so I'm not exactly packing on the miles either. Now I'm waiting for the temps to warm up so I can switch back to eco mode. Mornings are still a little chilly.

Ssulli

hmm...I'm confused. Eco on or Eco off to conserve gas?

I have a '10 bought in '12 and currently have 56-57K miles on it. I've been getting 23-26mpg and it's been on Eco mode pretty much since we bought it. I don't recall which number was avg and which was after fueling.

I share the car with the hubby which his commute to and from work is 10 miles. We live in an area with bunny hills, nothing huge or steep like that of San Francisco. We both are conscientious about staying within the green zone (eco zone). Gas is 99.9% the highest octane usu from Safeway, Shell, Chevron or Costco gas station. We both usu drive on the freeway averaging between 70-75 mph. What are we doing wrong??

Side note:
This is our first hybrid and Lexus. We bought it mainly bcz it was a hybrid. I'm not much of a techie. I just thought I'd get in and bam conserve gas and reduce my carbon footprint! After having found this awesome website I've learned so much about my car.

Aptosuser

Keep it in eco mode and STOP driving 70-75 mph on 280 or 101 or however you're getting to work. Speed absolutely kills mpg in this car. Besides, how much time are you really saving at 70-75 vs. 65 mph over 10 miles? I figure the time savings at 75 vs 65 at just over 1.5 minutes. Is that time savings really worth the extra (premium) gas, not to mention the increased stress? I don't think so. I have always driven the speed limit on Bay Area freeways wherever traffic conditions allowed, and only exceeded them when necessary to change lanes to pass marginally slower-moving vehicles. And I am averaging nearly 28 mpg. We keep the car in eco mode and have been filling up with premium, for whatever that's worth -- a subject of considerable debate here, by the way. My wife, a true slow poke if there ever was one, has been driving our RX exclusively since March 3, ferrying me to and from doctor appointments at Stanford because illness has precluded me from taking the helm. We live south of Santa Cruz, so these trips include traversing the mountains on Highway 17. Where I would drive the limit -- 50 mph -- on 17, she'll do 40-45, and 60-62 on 85 and 280 where I routinely drive 65. She's been averaging closer to 30 mpg. (The car's computer claims her mileage has been better than 31, but it reads high.) Full disclosure: my wife hates getting out into the "fast" lanes, and will not move over to the car pool lanes in heavy traffic, preferring to put up with stop-and-go when we've been caught in peak afternoon traffic on southbound 85. Of course, the all hybrid cars thrive on this mpg-wise, and the RX 450h is no different.

I am not suggesting that you drive like my wife, just that you stop driving like all the other maniacs on the road. Dare to be different. Slow down a bit, learn to enjoy and even laugh at the passing parade, and enjoy your savings at the gas pump.

kitlz

Well said, Aptosuser. Life is too short. But trying to make up for it isn't worth it either. Don't get sucked into that maniac mentality and you might actually add a few years to your life

Ssulli, The RXh gets slightly less MPG on the highway than city. The higher end of MPGs you're getting is not too far off. Maybe try a different gas brand for a while and check the tire pressure. One of the best features of the 450h is being able to do that from inside the cabin. Good luck.

Ssulli

Thnx Aptosuser and Anita.
I know we both need to slow down and I'm more aware of my speed than the hubby usu is.

euroja153

I am thinking about making the leap to a hybrid. At the time I bought my 350 I could not justify the extra 7k for the hybrid model, in hindsight I should have. I live in Montreal (freezinggggggg cold), and we do 90% city driving, when i say city driving I really mean hardcore city driving, the speed limit where we live is 40kmh (25mph) and there are stop signs at every block, the school run is 1km so the car doesnt even get a chance to warm up. Needless to say my mpg is shocking, my lifetime trip computer mpg is 13mpg and the avg speed is 13mph (I doubt anyone on this forum has worse numbers than me).

So for our next car Im thinking about getting a hybrid, but I would like to know:

1. if anyone else has driving conditions like me, if so what kind of numbers do you get with a 450h? both mpg and avg speed please

2. what are the other costs or savings you get from a hybrid? Apparently brake pads and rotors never need to be changed on a hybrid?

3. has anyone ever had to change their hybrid battery? or will the battery perform well for the lifetime (say 10 years) of the car?

We currently have 48,000km (30,000mi) on the odometer, 4.5 years using 91 fuel

Thanks a million

bam

The hybrid might get you a little bit better mpg but in the case where you're making short trips of less than 1km, the ICE never gets a chance to runs already warmed up so it'll always fire up to warm up which will kill your mpg. Another thing to consider is in such cold weather, your mpg will suffer as we'll with the hybrid.

I would suggest maybe considering a full electric or a diesel.

euroja153

From what I understand, diesel is useless for city driving. My thinking (please correct me if I am wrong) is that because I travel at such slow speeds and stop so frequently, the ICE will rarely get a chance to operate and I will be on battery power all/most of the time, and shouldnt that be good for mpg? Why whould I care that the ICE never gets a chance to run? I dont really understand how hybrids work in my situation, so sorry if my questions are a bit lame.

The school run is 1km each way, soon my eldest will be moving to a new school which is 5km (regular city driving, not hardcore city driving) each way in the other direction, so each day my wife will have to drive a whopping 24km as opposed to 4km each day

Aptosuser

euroja153, we have two hybrids now -- a 2012 Camry and our '10 RX 450h. We've had the Lexus for about six months. I love the car, but I think you'll be disappointed in it mileage-wise if you're looking for a huge improvement over short distances with lots of stop-and-go driving, even in warm weather, and you can forget about it in cold weather. We're averaging just under 28 mpg now in a mix of city and highway driving, which is about what the U.S. EPA fuel-economy rating promises. The 450h is supposed to get 30 mpg in city driving. But I've found that's hard to achieve in distances as short as 4 km, which is just under 2.5 miles. You probably could average that over 24 km/14.4 miles and might even be able to push it to close to 31 mpg, but I wouldn't expect more than that.

I've been able to keep our RX 450h in EV mode continuously for a few miles at a time, driving at steady speeds of 25-35 mph, with no stops. I've found that frequent stops are mileage killers, because even though the ICE doesn't run when you're slowing down and coming to a stop, it's hard to keep it from engaging when you start up again. It can be done if you keep a very light touch on the accelerator, but it takes practice.

The RX hybrid may be more car than you need in any case. Lexus will bring a smaller, presumably less-expensive crossover, the NX 300h, to market by the end of this summer. That car will probably give you more of a marked mileage improvement over your current RX 350. If fuel-economy is a big issue for you, I think you should wait to see how this new hybrid is rated and how much it costs.

Allannde

euroja - I have six years experience with a non plug in Prius which is a hybrid which operates similarly to the RX 450h and two years with a Plug in Prius. I can speak to how a Hybrid works in your situation. Driving slowly will help your economy. The key is that all electricity in your RX 450h is generated by the gasoline engine which burns gasoline to make that electricity. So while using more electricity does not eliminate using gasoline, it can save some gasoline because it is a bit more efficient in the way the car operates. The reason why many short trips use more gasoline is because the gasoline engine uses more gasoline while it is warming up. Once warm, the gasoline engine is more efficient and uses less gasoline.

I am not bragging when I say that my Plug in Prius has a lifetime economy of 115 mpg. No, my purpose for saying that (which is true) is to give perspective. The RX450h is capable of good economy compared to SUVs of a similar size, but it is NOT a fuel economy vehicle. It is a vehicle to enjoy which is not flagrantly wasteful.

That is why I ordered a 2015 RX450h to go with my Plug in Prius. I hope to get delivery soon.

bam

I bring up a diesel because from what you're describing, an RX450h is not going to net you the increase in mpg that you may be looking for. So if you're dead set of getting the RX450h, you'll need to set your expectations properly.

The reason that I recommended a diesel is because even though comparing a gas engine to a diesel engine is an apple to oranges comparison, if you try and get the diesels specs as close as possible to the gas or hybrid engine specs that you're comparing to, you'll find that the diesel will definitely out perform the gas engine as far as mpg and will give the hybrid a run for it's money. Now in your situation where you're doing a lot of short distance driving and as you mentioned in freezing weather, the hybrid is not going to be of much benefit and you may actually be worse off with it because of the weight since the ICE will practically always be running to warm the cabin and warm the engine up itself.

So getting a diesel will net you better mpg compared to gas only, though again not by much but anything is better than what you're currently getting.

What you should consider is either a full electric or a plug-in hybrid such as the prius. That seems like it would work best in your situation because you'd be able to do your short distance driving using only the electric motors with a full charge and therefore shouldn't need the use of the ICE saving you gas there but I'm not sure if heat in that car is created from the ICE or a heat pump which would affect the ICE running or not.

euroja153

Thanks for all the replies. It feels like a stab to the heart to find out that my mpg will not increase by much with a hybrid, I actually forgot to add one detail, and that is we keep our car in the driveway (even in winter) so the engine really takes a long time to warm up.

We do need a large car as we have 3 kids, so I need to think what else to get. Maybe I will still end up getting a hybrid, apart from the school run I guess we do some regular city driving, but downtown is 5km from our house, thats usually the furthest we go in the city drive, any further than that we use a highway.

I guess finding all this out opens up other options for us, fuel saving is important to me but maybe now I can look at other cars like the range rover sport which uses a 3L turbo engine and has stop/start technology.

kitlz

Unfortunately winter does that its toll on the 450h. I use remote start to at least get the chill out since my commute is only about 5-6 miles with plenty of hills. I've heard other members say the newer RXhs are better warming up. But once the temps drop, mileage goes out the door in favor or heat. I wouldn't say I regret having to make that compromise. I'm still doing better than my old 330. But then again it's not the only reason I went the hybrid route.

I understand the Tesla S is supposed to heat up pretty quickly. But I'd rather stick with the 450h and pocket the extra cash for gas and other things.

Aptosuser

Here in central coastal California, we don't have to cope with harsh winters like the one you just endured. But my solution for cold mornings (i.e. temps in the 40s) is to use the seat heater when I first start the car. That way I don't rely on the ICE to keep me warm right off the starting block. Once the ICE warms up there seems to be enough ambient heat coming off the engine to warm the cabin, even without actually activating climate control. Keeping the air flow on recirculation also helps. I know that this strategy won't help much if it's really frigid outside and stays that way all day. But it could prove useful at times in other climes. One thing I've found to be of no use is seat-cooling in hot weather. All that seems to do is drain the battery faster.

Cruiter

Like everyone, the winter mix has effected Watson's mileage a minor amount. With the summer blend starting to make it's way to the pumps now I'm looking forward to bumping the mpg average 'UP' one or two MPG's to back around 30.5 to 31mpg. Still and always have run high test which is 93 octane here in Dixie .

Like some I've been interested in watching news in our new 'mini' SUVh but it appears that even tho w/hybrid & 4cyl & smaller size, the mileage benefit will only be 3-4mpg's. But w/regular the effective cost per mile will still be a bit lower.