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I don’t like the latest Lexus products. I believe the new LX is hideous. The interior is laughable with these disjoint screens. It just screams “I’m trying too hard”. I seriously hope they don’t mess up the next GX. That’s the main reason I bought the current GX.
The GX (and the 4Runner for that matter) have aged beautifully as they are. Only cosmetic changes since they were released in the late 2000s. I think that says a lot. Another vehicle that comes to mind is the G wagon from Mercedes. Granted that costs a lot more than a GX. Jeeps wranglers have also maintained their signature look while being relevant. There’s no reason Toyota/Lexus can’t do the same with the GX/4Runner.
If I could design my perfect GX for 2024 would be the following.
Keep the same overall design and proportions the same. This is not broken. Please don’t fix it.
Add relevant tech goodies missing from a luxury SUV and nothing else (heads up display, active lane keep assist, active headlights, one touch blinkers, wireless CarPlay, usb-C, etc)
Do not add half-baked junk features just to check off items off a list. For example, Do not add 3 screens to a vehicle just to say it has them (like the LX)
360 camera comes standard in premium tier and up
CC and MTS can be added as a package to premium and up
Off road package improves ground clearance. Different front bumper/delete side skirts.
Available rear locker
Luxury adds full air suspension. Not just the rear
Things like auto parking, self driving, and other useless features like these are all part of a package we can easily avoid.
Keep radio/AC controls as physical buttons.
Improved instrument panel. However don’t need a screen just to show the same info you would if I didn’t have a screen (again this is a LX sin). Combination of sharp physical gages and a small high resolution screen is fine.
Better seats with more adjustments for driver/passenger
Repackage interior to grant better leg room to 3rd row.
I wonder if this might mean:
1) The ''25 4Runner becomes more like the FJ/Bronco competitor and the LC is more what the current 4runner is
2) That the GX550 will get the 6cyl hybrid option to separate its powertrain from the LC
Yeah I don’t see them having both the 4Runner and Prado here. It just doesn’t make sense to cannibalize the sales of both the GX and 4Runner by doing that.
I’ve found myself believing David less and less over the years.
David is a misleading grifter, who is a smart engineer that explains OTHER things very well, but is hampered by clueless bungling of his unique position as a Toyota insider. One that allowed himself to be frozen out from access to key information, by being too public and thus becoming a target. If you have an inside line into a high profile Fortune 500 company, you don't go and start a vlogging channel on YouTube. Burns too many bridges of information, to the point you only get some fluff at best. I don't know why anyone would trust him on future insight, as he has NONE. He needs to manage his resources better.
Originally Posted by CFAI
Well that I could see a bit more since one could have more lux/ sound deadening trim etc - like Lexus ES and Toyota Avalon or Lexus NX and Toyota Rav4. But Toyota Prado and Toyota 4Runner seems weird if 6th gen is as similar as 5th gen.
The 4Runner will be the civilized midsize BOF 4x4, in the vein of the Sequoia, while the Land Cruiser is a different animal entirely. Think of the regular wheelbase Jeep Grand Cherokee. 4Runner will be to that, what the LX 570 is to the Range Rover. BOF, but not unibody like the competitor. GX will be premium version of the Land Cruiser against the inline-six Defender 110, but not much of a discount. It will reach well into the $80s and be positioned differently than the LX, which is more a body-on-frame competitor. I believe it will top out at $90k in the highest spec, while TX550h+ will price below it at about the low $80s fully loaded and start at about mid-$50s.
Originally Posted by GX4602011
Yes, agree. The 4Runner is for the American market instead of the very similar sized Prado, just like the Sequoia is the American-market version of the LC. Reasons I suspect; the Prado and LC are expensive and shaped differently than what Americans like/familiar with. Imagine if the 4Runner was replaced by the Prado, everyone would be complaining about the side opening door and the $60K+ price tag.
Of course, some of us Americans been exposed to some of the offering from overseas and will pay extra for the 'international version' over the domestic flavor (like the US LC buyers paying $90K when a Sequoia would be $65k). Hence us Toyota Prado fans here end up being Lexus owners.
What if Toyota brought in the Prado as a step up from 4Runner and simply removed the GX from the Lexus line up?
Another thought.
Back when Toyota-BMW joined to create the Supra/Z4, BMW designed Z4, Toyota used the basis with their input made a hardtop version and put their logo and Supra name on it. Back then I remember reading somewhere that Toyota was to offer BMW a Toyota designed SUV to be sold with BMW roundels on it. What if the next Prado will be sold as a Toyota in the US and a fancy version (current GX styling) as a BMW?
BMW theory is a funny what-if for laughs, but none of the above has any reality.
The Land Cruiser will arrive next year as the 4x4 halo of the brand, as I first mentioned back in 2019, based on some information passed onto me from a 2019 meeting, that leaked why the 5GS became the Mirai. Remember that rumor? Same source, me via a former CL member and now a Lexus admin. Hardcore 5-seater, targeting the Wrangler and more specifically our Bronco. Not my words of course, but this has been the same thing passed around since 2019. I helped make it public.
The GX 550, I learned about last year more in depth, after getting general scheduling info back in 2019-20. It was designed as a 2023 model originally, but got delayed. 4Runner was as well, but has been delayed to MY 2024 and now MY 2025, beginning production in July 2024 and launching in late summer/early fall 2024.
Originally Posted by Acrad
Everything is just a rumor about LC returning to US but for those that don't know the LC Prado has for years been sold as just "Land Cruiser" without Prado on vehicle in Western Europe.
The 200 series was called Land Cruiser V8 and IIRC stopped being sold around 2016 in Western Europe. Feel free to correct me.
It's not really a rumor, except to those who don't know the behind the scenes details. There's truth to it and I've posted on this the past 3 years, with that knowledge. No one would've known about any such thing if not for a Motor1 report I ghostwrote in 2020. I learned about the hardcore American Land Cruiser in 2019, but kept quiet for months. I trusted the insight, as the source of the info was credible and provided pages of other insight as well, which I married to my own gathered insight on both other nameplates and most on the list they gave. The Land Cruiser had no MY determined at the time per the source nor was it showing up any internal manufacturing timelines through January 1, 2023. That early on, I knew for a fact this was a 2024 or 2025 model, for it to be of any discussion at Toyota USA. Anything 2026 or 2027, wouldn't be in the whiteboard phases in 2019 nor stateside at all in most instances, except for the best of Lexus or supercar level. Let alone easily slip out like that. This was a development going back to 2017/18 at earliest, meaning that 300-Series couldn't come to USA, since the new LC wouldn't be ready in time and thus a hiatus of the nameplate.
I made a Toyota launch chart over a year ago, describing it as a 2024 vehicle. Although I wasn't hearing much as I did in 2019-2020 and was growing skeptical, I eventually got some confirmation such a vehicle would be MY 2024. I learned last spring, the next generation 4Runner was delayed to 2025MY, at a time when everyone was wiping the egg off of their faces regarding outdated expectations of a 2023 4Runner. I already knew in February 2020, that the GX wouldn't be redesigned until the 2023 CY.
That's what people keep missing in terms of the nameplate. They cannot get out of their own limited perspective/bubble and realize that it is essentially a sub brand since the 1960s, when 50-Series debuted and then when 70-Series appeared in 1984.
The discontinuation in UK was a massive disappointment, as my large extended family owns many Land Cruiser 200s and a few new 300s in a fleet capacity, generally as people carriers or carpooling purposes in the motherland. Whereas, we only owned two Land Cruisers at our UK residence. One 100-Series in 2005 and then replaced by a 2013/14 Land Cruiser 4.5 V8 we still have presently. In November 2015 when the 200 Series received a major update, UK lost out on the V8 and my folks were a bit disappointed I proposed for some 18 months, replacing it with that for them in absentia. Our LC200 getting dated now and certain services no longer work due to being discontinued. It's held up well as you'd expect, like it's brand new, but it still isn't "new". Sees very little use now I've moved back to the US for some years now and no one lives there. Toyota UK shouldn't have discontinued the 200 in the UK after 2015, but like USA didn't see use for the product. Just like there's no IS for sale there.
Originally Posted by TheLastV8
I don’t like the latest Lexus products. I believe the new LX is hideous. The interior is laughable with these disjoint screens. It just screams “I’m trying too hard”. I seriously hope they don’t mess up the next GX. That’s the main reason I bought the current GX.
The GX (and the 4Runner for that matter) have aged beautifully as they are. Only cosmetic changes since they were released in the late 2000s. I think that says a lot. Another vehicle that comes to mind is the G wagon from Mercedes. Granted that costs a lot more than a GX. Jeeps wranglers have also maintained their signature look while being relevant. There’s no reason Toyota/Lexus can’t do the same with the GX/4Runner.
If I could design my perfect GX for 2024 would be the following.
Keep the same overall design and proportions the same. This is not broken. Please don’t fix it.
Add relevant tech goodies missing from a luxury SUV and nothing else (heads up display, active lane keep assist, active headlights, one touch blinkers, wireless CarPlay, usb-C, etc)
Do not add half-baked junk features just to check off items off a list. For example, Do not add 3 screens to a vehicle just to say it has them (like the LX)
360 camera comes standard in premium tier and up
CC and MTS can be added as a package to premium and up
Off road package improves ground clearance. Different front bumper/delete side skirts.
Available rear locker
Luxury adds full air suspension. Not just the rear
Things like auto parking, self driving, and other useless features like these are all part of a package we can easily avoid.
Keep radio/AC controls as physical buttons.
Improved instrument panel. However don’t need a screen just to show the same info you would if I didn’t have a screen (again this is a LX sin). Combination of sharp physical gages and a small high resolution screen is fine.
Better seats with more adjustments for driver/passenger
Repackage interior to grant better leg room to 3rd row.
The new GX is very tech laden from the little I have heard and is diverging from the country club, horse riding stables image it currently has. It's an upmarket version of what the North American Land Cruiser will be. It was shown some 2 years for the first time to dealer conference attendees in February 2021, meaning that the final design has been a done deal since some time in 2019-20. I first heard about this new Land Cruiser in late 2019, from a former CL user. Other people verified the information to be true, but I wouldn't have known otherwise if not for that. Too bad dumb the automotive press got it wrong in 2020 and confused everyone until info began to leak out in 2021.
The 4Runner is a year behind them both, around September 2024. GX 550 arrives in December 2023, as I stated back in 2021 and has clearly held firm.
Originally Posted by CFAI
I wonder if this might mean:
1) The ''25 4Runner becomes more like the FJ/Bronco competitor and the LC is more what the current 4runner is
2) That the GX550 will get the 6cyl hybrid option to separate its powertrain from the LC
That is not correct, it's the inverse. This describes the Land Cruiser not 4Runner, while the GX is the interpretation of the Defender 110 and M-Benz G 450, if the M256 I6 was sold as a base offering under G500/G550. Both will coexist, after which the Land Cruiser will arrive during 2024 model year.
GX 550 is not a hybrid, although I once falsely stated this from bad intel 15 months ago. It's a petrol powertrain, as all Lexus hybrids are denoted by h suffixes. GX 550h is T24A-FTS.
2025 4Runner is a more civilized approach to the body on frame segment, while Land Cruiser is more direct and takes the others head on. 4Runner basically remains a body-on-frame Grand Cherokee competitor (which is IFS+IRS unibody), while the Land Cruiser won't be and targets hardcore offroaders. There was a Japanese rumor that either the Prado or 4Runner would become unibody RWD like Land Rover, but I believe it's nonsensical hearsay, since TNGA-F would have to give way to TNGA-L or an all-new trucky unibody architecture.
Seems like there will be three new vehicles for the US:
GX550 (or some other GXxxx number) with a detuned turbo V6 from the LX600
Land Cruiser (same as GX but a Toyota)
4Runner (4 cylinder tacoma based, hybrid available)
I don’t give Toyota a high chance of doing much new and that would align with rest of world where you have the land cruiser prado and then you have the foretuner based on the hilux.
I also think they will get closer to globalizing all the options with the rest of the world (ROW) for body on frame SUVs so that they are selling the same vehicles and some markets just don’t get one of more.
BIG
Land Cruiser 300 (seems unlikely to come back to the US until demand is both satisfied in the ROW and there is demand in the US).
LX600 (95% the same as the higher specs of LC300)
Step Down in Size but Premium
Land Cruiser Prado (I think this comes to the US)
GX550
BIGer but not as premium
Sequoia
Mass Market
4Runner and Foretuner (I expect these will converge and are 2025 or later)
I say this because the upcoming new tacoma has a multi link rear and is based on the same platform as everything else (tundra, sequoia) which makes sense if you are developing a mid-sized body on frame SUV on the platform. So I think every body on frame SUV and pick up will all be on the same platform. Toyota has been successful with this is the unibody.
I did post my post before David posted his video so I did not cheat. :-)
Only thing I find interesting is that he says Land Cruiser Prado and GX will have option of hybrid.
If you look under an LX600 (savagegeese review on YouTube has good underbody shots) there is space for a hybrid motor like on a tundra/sequoia and I think the LX600 gets a hybrid option (as will the LC300 Land Cruiser). It very noticeable that there is space to move the transfer case back.
I suppose it makes sense to offer a hybrid GX/LC Prado, but I don’t know where they fit the battery and the motor. I guess you lose the third row seats.
I am going with LX600 gets hybrid for 2024 (LX650? 750? LX600h?) and GX/LC Prado go two years before they get it if at all.
GX 550 is not a hybrid, although I once falsely stated this from bad intel 15 months ago. It's a petrol powertrain, as all Lexus hybrids are denoted by h suffixes. GX 550h is T24A-FTS.
2025 4Runner is a more civilized approach to the body on frame segment, while Land Cruiser is more direct and takes the others head on. 4Runner basically remains a body-on-frame Grand Cherokee competitor (which is IFS+IRS unibody), while the Land Cruiser won't be and targets hardcore offroaders. There was a Japanese rumor that either the Prado or 4Runner would become unibody RWD like Land Rover, but I believe it's nonsensical hearsay, since TNGA-F would have to give way to TNGA-L or an all-new trucky unibody architecture.
Good to see you around here again, CarMaker. Always appreciate your insight and discussion
Just for clarity, you mean the TX 550h is T24-FTS, correct? Lexus' naming convention/syntax soup is all wonky when trying to determine power outputs these days. From the trademarks I've seen, you have:
TX 350: T24-FTS Petrol only (which I don't think we'll see unless boosted?)
TX 500h:T24-FTS Hybrid (Same powertrain in the RX500 FSP)
TX 550h+: T24-FTS Plug-in Hybrid (New powertrain)
GX 550: V35A-FTS Petrol only (purely a guess on my part)
I'm guessing the GX has to remain V6 to compete with the Defender/GLS/Base G-Wagen crowd. I do believe they have to offer a hybrid powertrain for he GX, as they want to have a hybrid option of everything by 2025. So a GX550h is totally a possibility. It would just be a number never used before and probably a 4cyl. I'm guessing it'd have to have more power than a RX 500h FSP, but somewhere in the neighborhood of the TX 550h+.
Just like I said years ago, 2024 GX 550 launch is right here officially recognized as December 2023 for your own eyes to see. A lot of people doubt my information, but forget it does me no good to make things up.
A big thanks to a VFD90 on Reddit
I also pointed out the correct launch date for TX as well and that seems to be holding firm all this time later. A big thanks to all my inside sources who've steered me in the right direction and nice finger back at the ignorant skeptics, eager to doubt someone's earnest efforts to keep everyone informed.
I also really do appreciate the online PMs I keep getting from various TMNA corporate personnel, who instead of threatening me, compliment my efforts, since they don't want to chance it themselves.
Originally Posted by iggyhop9
Good to see you around here again, CarMaker. Always appreciate your insight and discussion
Just for clarity, you mean the TX 550h is T24-FTS, correct? Lexus' naming convention/syntax soup is all wonky when trying to determine power outputs these days. From the trademarks I've seen, you have:
TX 350: T24-FTS Petrol only (which I don't think we'll see unless boosted?)
TX 500h:T24-FTS Hybrid (Same powertrain in the RX500 FSP)
TX 550h+: T24-FTS Plug-in Hybrid (New powertrain)
GX 550: V35A-FTS Petrol only (purely a guess on my part)
I'm guessing the GX has to remain V6 to compete with the Defender/GLS/Base G-Wagen crowd. I do believe they have to offer a hybrid powertrain for he GX, as they want to have a hybrid option of everything by 2025. So a GX550h is totally a possibility. It would just be a number never used before and probably a 4cyl. I'm guessing it'd have to have more power than a RX 500h FSP, but somewhere in the neighborhood of the TX 550h+.
Good guess, very dead accurate. That's pretty much the lineup and the TX550h+ as you see arrives in December.
Just like I said years ago, 2024 GX 550 launch is right here officially recognized as December 2023 for your own eyes to see. A lot of people doubt my information, but forget it does me no good to make things up.
A big thanks to a VFD90 on Reddit
I also pointed out the correct launch date for TX as well and that seems to be holding firm all this time later. A big thanks to all my inside sources who've steered me in the right direction and nice finger back at the ignorant skeptics, eager to doubt someone's earnest efforts to keep everyone informed.
I also really do appreciate the online PMs I keep getting from various TMNA corporate personnel, who instead of threatening me, compliment my efforts, since they don't want to chance it themselves.
Good guess, very dead accurate. That's pretty much the lineup and the TX550h+ as you see arrives in December.
With the new GX and TX arriving in December, when can we expect to get the big reveal?
Good to see you around here again, CarMaker. Always appreciate your insight and discussion
Just for clarity, you mean the TX 550h is T24-FTS, correct? Lexus' naming convention/syntax soup is all wonky when trying to determine power outputs these days. From the trademarks I've seen, you have:
TX 350: T24-FTS Petrol only (which I don't think we'll see unless boosted?)
TX 500h:T24-FTS Hybrid (Same powertrain in the RX500 FSP)
TX 550h+: T24-FTS Plug-in Hybrid (New powertrain)
GX 550: V35A-FTS Petrol only (purely a guess on my part)
I'm guessing the GX has to remain V6 to compete with the Defender/GLS/Base G-Wagen crowd. I do believe they have to offer a hybrid powertrain for he GX, as they want to have a hybrid option of everything by 2025. So a GX550h is totally a possibility. It would just be a number never used before and probably a 4cyl. I'm guessing it'd have to have more power than a RX 500h FSP, but somewhere in the neighborhood of the TX 550h+.
However for next gen, the GX 460 was revealed just 3 weeks before release.
I think Toyota Campus Confidential in Plano at the end of May or June will be reveal at earliest, but with the facelift 2024 LC, RC-F, and TX (September) , I'm not sure. 2021 Event
GX is the last 2024 model from Lexus, so might even be held back until July or August.
Originally Posted by Kelvin2020
GX550h is trademarked in China
Yes, I mentioned back in September 2021 it had been trademarked elsewhere in this very post below.
Originally Posted by Carmaker1
L E X U S GX550h has also been trademarked in some other regions? Is this actually another powertrain? Or does it give away, that the GX 550 is the same exact vehicle and actually a mild hybrid instead like some have been saying? \
Mazda is also developing a 3.0L I6 mild hybrid 48v. With the same amount of hybrid boost as the 3.4L V35A-FTS V6 LX 600, does that easily as well equal
3.4 + 0.1 ~ 3.5 x 100 = 350 + 250 = 600 = LX 600. (V35A with mild hybrid?)
3.0 x 100 = 300 + 250 = 550 = GX 550.(V35A-FTS with less boost or detuning?) Or 3.0L Inline-6 turbo?
This is one theory, but totally out of the loop and not to be taken seriously, as someone asked me this question.
For LS 500 (3.4L TTV6), this convoluted marketing math equals
3.4 + 0.1 ~ 3.5 x 100 = 350 + 150 = 500 = LS 500
For IS 300 RWD (2.0 Single Turbo)
2.0 x 100 = 200 + 100 = 300 = IS 300
For NX 350 (2.4L Single Turbo)
2.4 + 0.1 ~ 2.5 x 100 = 250 + 100 = 350 = NX 350
One thing is for certain, is it likely that the GX 550 is some kind of hybrid and so is LX 600, but have dropped the Lexus h in the Americas for some weird reason. Just like how IS 200t became IS 300, with no t at the end.
One should keep checking to see if GX 550h is filed for trademark in USA over the next 6 weeks, because if it isn't, just might have given away what GX 550 really is and why it is named higher than the LS 500, using the same engine.
12-12-22, 03:30 PM
