jlficken

Last I saw it was Lexus going full EV not Toyota as a whole. Did I miss an announcement?

mwike

I understand your opinion. May not share it but do understand. Our range does drop in the winter and when it's negative, the range really drops. After the tax credits, the PHEV cost may be cheaper than ICE only. Where we live, I have no concept of poor hot weather performance

The two things we like most about the PHEV: 1) lack of gas station visits, even in winter. We filled up about once a month in the winter. 2) The power the PHEV has. I'm talking about how it supplements the ICE. And that supplemental is essentially always available. To me this is the hidden benefit folks don't talk about.

Also, just so you know, I think most folks with a PHEV are not concerned about charging stations. At least we weren't when we purchased. It gets a bit over 25 miles and that's enough for our routine trips to town. I'd never stop somewhere to charge for 25 miles.

MrTorgue

True. Though Toyota will have ~30 EVs by 2030.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/14/...ncept-vehicles

Still follows my point that if Lexus will be full EV then let’s start getting the LX and GX PHEVs already. LOL

MrTorgue

This describes us. We can get 35-45+ miles of EV with our 2022 Toyota RAV4 Prime but on long trips unless we are staying overnight or taking a 3-5 hour rest stop / shopping trip we wouldn’t really feel the need to charge it for just a few dozen miles.

Acrad

2

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MrTorgue

You know I’m just disappointed. I drove my GX around town yesterday despite $5/gal for premium and all the while I kept contemplating what the experience would be like if the GX was a PHEV. I love my truck, a lot, but it’s time to move on. EV conversions are way too expensive so I’m left with downsizing to an NX450h+ that has zero reason to be off pavement with that stupid low hanging grille or I’m left with the prospect of buying a Model Y or a Kia EV9. Cannot even buy a Highlander PHEV Toyota, WTF are you doing. I’m really trying to stay with the brand. I suppose I could buy my wife the NX and I modify the RAV4 Prime we have to be a little more suited for off pavement duties but that won’t solve my need to tow a ~3,000lb trailer.

Toyota you’re missing out on a golden opportunity. Just make it an option. **** I’d buy a Sequoia if it had a PHEV system. I like the new one a lot.

william489

I am in exactly same situation. I would love to take an EV or PHEV from TM for my next car. I need an alternative to model Y or EV6.

TheHighLow

I left Toyota/Lexus temporarily and currently enjoying my Rubicon 4Xe. I get 22 miles @65-70 mph and 28 miles around town (25-40mph) per charge. Averaging 32 MPG overall, as I take a few highway trips a week. I averaged 18.3 in the GX. It could do much better if I avoided highway travel but it's got plenty of range to do most of what I need to do. I don't miss the V8 (4Xe does 5.5secs 0-60) and enjoy the quiet when I take her off pavement.

I'll be watching Toyota/Lexus in the future though. PHEV with home charging is the way to go here.

r2m

Ahhh... But do you really expect to get 300,000 plus miles out of it with only needing regular services?
But again, if you only keep your vehicles a few years, that's a moot point.

MrTorgue

There are multiple examples of early Model S’s going well over 250-400k miles without much trouble. When comparing their overall cost of ownership versus a petrol powered vehicle they come out ahead even with a battery change or two. Tesla had an 8yr unlimited warranty on drivetrain on most year models of the S so each of the high mileage examples had their first battery pack replaced under warranty. Will they be as reliable as a GX470 or GX460? No, absolutely not. Will it be more reliable than about anything else without a Lexus badge? Probably. The standard bumper to bumper is 4yr @ 50k miles so that’s a plus over your typical vehicle (3yr 36k is a joke). Your wear items like suspension and steering will be where your repair cost will likely go. Brakes tend to last a very long time if you don’t beat on it due to the regenerative braking aspect.

I’ve been doing a ton of research on EV reliability, mostly Tesla, to get an idea on what to expect. So if Toyota can at least match Tesla’s results on the older Model S (which should be easy for Toyota) then yes, I do expect a Toyota or Lexus branded PHEV or EV to easily last 300k or more. Just as long as everyone understands regular maintenance includes battery replacements every 125-225k miles with current technology. Add up all your oil changes, trans fluid flushes, diff fluid flushes and other mechanical ICE vehicle maintenance and you’ll find owning one of these isn’t as bad on the pocketbook assuming you were prudent with your money and put some away for the future battery replacement outside of warranty. It’s easier for the average American to stomach $50 here $120 there every few months or so rather than $7k here or $12k way down the road and likely only once or twice. If you are not a good money saver than I don’t recommend buying anything but a Toyota Corolla, Camry or RAV4. LOL

FastTurtle

Great point and I agree with you. Tesla cars are reliable and only use high quality materials.
I thought about ordering a Model Y this year but end up getting the GX460 to replace my 2015 Highlander (120K miles). The Model Y w/o autopilot and Gx460 premium are on the same price range , I went with what makes sense and fits my lifestyle.

Would I consider Tesla in the future? Yes 💯 !

Seanzky

I've read and heard opinions from people, taken with a grain of salt of course, that due to poor quality and manufacturing, they lead all manufacturers in recalls. I've heard from some that every single Tesla ever made has been recalled at least once. This is also reflected on the JD Power scores where GX and RX dominate year after year. Tesla is constantly LAST place. Coincidentally, around where I live, the roads are dominated by Lexus vehicles AND Teslas. I also see a lot of "Carmax" stickers on many Teslas which always made me wonder how the newer models are already bought used. These are just my observations, which are anecdotal for this discussion at best, and I'm not here to knock on Tesla. I'm curious to hear what y'all thought about that.

Just for context, I've considered buying a Tesla so many times over the years but I never pulled the trigger due to the range anxiety thing.

FastTurtle

I agree with you with range anxiety. EV chargers are everywhere in San Diego, Ca but I’m not ready to give up the convenience of fill up and go.

Carmax Tesla supply is crazy haha why do you think that is? Did owning an EV shocked the routine or living beyond their means? Or made a smart move by leasing it first to see if they are ready to live with an EV?

Would a Tesla-Lexus collaboration a possibility?

CFAI

I would love PHEV version of the GX so maybe when something comes out in 4 or 5 years I will look to trade in for the 3rd Gen- but Tesla? No Thanks. I work in tech and the very last thing I want to do is have to constantly interact with a monitor and nested menus while driving. For me a car is more like furniture than technology. Under the hood can be electronics but I want the human/car interface to be analog/physical.

FastTurtle

Great point and analogy. Looks like we are several months away from a hybrid GX.
For someone that works in tech industry, what would be a big NO tech update for a new GX?