Originally Posted by bitkahuna

couple of thoughts...

first, it REALLY seems like lexus has worked very hard to address the biggest shortcomings of the GS - handling and interior/trunk space. huge props to lexus for listening!

second, perhaps that has necessitated a somewhat 'boxy' (less fluid/elegant) shape to the car, which they've tried to make interesting with lots of curvy details. of course the devil's in the details, and will wait to see final unveil, but the exterior looks like it will at least not be terrible like the last gen 5 series, for example.

i totally applaud lexus if they decide not to do a v8 for two reasons. 1) the current gs460 just doesn't sell and i don't think +30hp or something is going to make any difference. 2) i know traditionalists will howl, but if lexus wants to push the hybrid proudly, they should do so without apology. the current gs450h is definitely a fast car and a technological marvel, so a new gs450h can definitely be faster, and with better handling, a bigger trunk, and lighter weight, it could well be incredible.

Originally Posted by Vladi

I think this would be better than just a plain dial.

Originally Posted by MPLexus301

While we have moved on from this, I just want to make a few points about Audi interiors since there is much conversation about how the GS stacks up against the A6 in this regard.

I think it would do you some justice to park comparable Lexus and Audis next to each other and examine their interiors side by side. I know you like and buy Audis, and quite frankly I was a big fan of Audi for a long time, but their interiors are extremely overhyped in my opinion.

I have been in the current A4 plenty of times and, every time, I'm left underwhelmed. I'll admit that I find the design to be quite ugly, but style is subjective so I don't hold that against the car. I am very particular about interiors, especially quality and materials and have no problem overlooking a design that I find to be ugly to say, "Hey...it's built well with top rate materials and first class workmanship, even if I don't like how it looks." The S Class is one such example - don't like how it looks, but hard to find any fault with how it's built.

Audi has always had interiors that are at or near the top of their class but I find their current crop of cars to be lacking, despite what most magazines and reviews would have you believe. When you sit in the new A4, the center stack is covered in extremely hard and brittle feeling plastic. The area around the CD player, AC vents, shifter and nav screen is all covered in the same cheap, hard painted plastic. The stuff around the window controls (on the door) is barely any better. The A5 is also much the same. When driving the car, I've also heard plenty of "ticks" and rubbing as the chassis flexes and these various pieces of plastic change position and rub together. Really not grasping for straws here - this has been the case with almost every current gen A4 that I've driven or been inside of, something to the tune of 8+ cars.

Have you ever knocked on the dash or the doors in an A4? It sounds curiously hollow. The material that they have put in these locations is very nice stuff to the touch and eye, but when you actually bang on it, it sounds rather thin.

The IS is quite simply old at this point. The plastic around the radio controls and on the door pulls feels a lot like the cheap, hard stuff that I referenced above about the A4. It's really no better or worse done than Audi. Go feel them back to back, and tell me if you disagree.

The plastics used on the top of the doors and dash are much softer in the IS. They look just as nice to the eye and feel just as refined when you run your hand across them, if not a bit nicer because they're a tad more pliable. The difference? Knock on the dash or door of an IS and it sounds solid. You're met with a "thud" instead of a peck like the A4.

Tit for tat, I think the interiors of the A4 and IS are pretty evenly matched. Lexus and Audi have cut corners and prioritized feel in different places, but the difference is that the IS is a six year old car at this point...the A4 is pretty new. IS gets ragged on for a plasticky interior...A4 does not. Very interesting, especially when you compare them side by side as I have done many times.

My next case in point is RX vs. Q5. My boss recently bought a loaded Q5 and refused to look at the RX because her mom has one (previous generation RX330) and she didn't want an "old lady car". She knows I'm a car guy so when she bought Q5, she let me take it out for a spin and gave me the keys to check it out. Much like the A4, the material on the top of the dash and doors is nice at first touch and pleasing to the eye, but it feels noticeably hollow once you really push on it. Touch the plastic around the nav screen, shifter or and audio controls...how expensive does that really feel? I'm pretty sure that if I blind folded you and had you run your finger over, rub, and apply pressure to pieces of the Audi interior, you'd be quite sure that they were from the "inferior" Lexus or perhaps worse.

I recently brought my GS in for service and was given a black on black RX 450h as a loaner. I forgot how nice the interior of the new RX was and as somewhat of a jab, I asked my boss if she wanted to go to lunch in the "old lady car". She laughed and agreed, and as even a 30-something woman who knows little to nothing about cars, she was shocked at how much nicer the materials in the RX felt than her Q5.

Once again, the dash and doors feel several inches thicker than the Q5. There is a deep thud when you knock on them...the Q5 sounds hard (because it is) and not nearly as thick. The material on the doors is particularly thin and cheap feeling on the Audi.

I'm not trying to pick on Audi and since you're relatively new to this forum, I feel like it's worth mentioning that short of being a troll, I've been one of the most outspokenly critical members towards Lexus in recent years. I will call Lexus on their errors and praise them when they get it right...I'd like to think I don't really wear the blinders that you'd expect on a Lexus forum or drink the kool-aid.

Let's face it: right now, hating Lexus has become about as en vogue as liking Audi. That's perfectly fine when you want to magsurf, but when you start talking to people who really know these cars as well as their competitors, I think the story is a little different.

I haven't been inside the new A6, but when I look at pictures, I see many of the same plastics and materials that I have in A4s and Q5s - no real surprise there. That infamous black plastic obviously resides around the audio and HVAC controls and the interior door panels look just about as flat and thin feeling as the aforementioned Audis. Of course, there are many things that look absolutely gorgeous like wood options and aluminum detailing. As Mr. Burns is saying, the GS is covered in leather where we see plastic in the A6...that isn't arguable. In fact, it looks like nearly every common touch point in the GS is covered in wood, leather, or both. I'd probably venture to guess that the interior surfaces of the A6 will also be harder to the touch and not quite as well insulated, if my experiences with the IS/A4 and Q5/RX are any indication. With that said, I'll wait until I can sit inside of both to make a decision.

You seem excited about the 4GS, but get very threatened with the A6 is mentioned in comparison. Audi makes great cars...so does Lexus, and this looks to be one of their best yet. At the end of the day, we win as consumers when competition gets this fierce so to be hashing out who has a nicer plastic, I kind of feel like we've already won

Originally Posted by spwolf

i recall you being strong critic of GS before details were known, so I value your opinion on the car.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Strictly speaking, IS250 AWD vs A4 Prem Plus Quattro (IS350 is S4 competition)

Audi has:

- newer
- higher residuals
- more sturdy sheetmetal
- better seats
- people other than midgets can fit in the back and has a sizable trunk
- MMI is far superior to the outdated Lexus touchscreen system
- Recommended by Consumer Reports
- Faster. A4 2.0T is so much faster
- can get a manual transmission with AWD
- higher quality interior (no one can debate this. it is best in class. you want wood, you can get wood. you want aluminum, you can get it)
- handles quite well
- more advanced AWD system
- Audi Drive Select option
- Bang and Olufsen sound system is better
- Looks are subjective. I think the pre facelift IS is a sharp car. I think the A4 with SLine is sharper
- Audi side assist
- Better fuel economy

Originally Posted by rominl

i don't mind seeing a gs type wagon. though i am not sure about the market

Originally Posted by SRTGS300

The ISx50 design is 6 years old. Audi just refreshed their A4's in 09' so of course they're going to be better equipped however, the IS is still a huge competitor interior wise despite its age imo. But, I do think the A6 won't be up to par with the 4GS.
IS250 Prem


A4 Prem +

Originally Posted by SRTGS300

I agree at some extent but Audi's interiors aren't all that. The A4's interior is just okay, the best about Audi is their MMI. The A8's interior is well executed and really nicely finished but the other models just don't appeal to me IMO. MB and BMW's interiors are better than Audi's by a long run, wouldn't you guys agree? I think this would be a better comparison if it were the 5 series because its designed similarly with the large screen integrated into the dash rather than Audi's pop up display. Imho, Audi is at the bottom of the 3 Germans.

Originally Posted by Lexuslvr91

Actually: The A7's open-pore, oil-finished wood is breathtaking. Still, compared with the last A7 we tested, this one is down about $14,000 worth of interior options. So even with all that pretty wood, there's a bunch of gray plastic that cheapens the feel of the car. We even think the leather's a lower grade.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/.../interior.html

Originally Posted by Vladi

I think this would be better than just a plain dial.