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Hey guys/gals I'm usually in the LS forum as you can tell from the sig. Now I'm looking for a GS for the wife. I've been doing lots of searching and reading in this forum to get familiar with the car and test drove one the other day at a local BMW dealership. The ride was pretty good. My wife has been pre-approved for the loan at the MCU with a 2.95 APR which can be brought down to 1.95 with auto pay(.5) and another(.5) if I use any of the dealers they recommend from their MCU car buying service. The vehicle has to be no older than an 09 and has to be under 100k.I do all my own work on my LS. OK enough with the full disclosure lol.
I've looked at about 4 cars now with mileage from 55k to 97k ranging from 17k to 22k. I really would like to stay at 20k out the door. Do you think this is possible? I have looked up all vins on my lexus drivers acct and they all basically have been serviced at the dealers and had SSC done except the last one that came out in October. I have specifically targeted some dealers where the car has been sitting from 60 to 180 days figuring that they would be more inclined to meet me at that 20k out the door price. I actually got one to meet me there but of course it was not my top choice. Aftermarket rims(would prefer OEM) and a carfax reported accident on the right rear. I know a lil something about body work but I could not see ANY visible damage. Also is there any reason to pick the 09 over the 10.
Also is there any reason to pick the 09 over the 10.
In 2010 there was a navi system upgrade to the HDD version, it also started supporting bluetooth audio streaming at this point. Before 2010 the bluetooth support was limited to phone calls. Also the 2009's will still have a cassette deck:
well the latest Consumer Reports just dropped the rating on the 08's and 09's for "major engine" issues (due to survey responses from owners during the last 10 months)...but it's fair to assume the 10's and 11's will soon follow as the miles accumulate. So..there's that.
As for price...seems these GS's are more reasonable here in the mid plain states (Ok, Texas, Kansas). 09's in great shape and under 100k miles, with Nav and ML stereo can be found here under 20k. Sometimes...well under. Cars.com and AutoTrader.com should yield some results. My 09', of course has the tape deck and I actually use it OCCASIONALLY for my R.E.M cassettes, lol..., but i think it looks better with something there (even though pretty much obsolete) than just the blank space on the 10's and 11's.
In 2010 there was a navi system upgrade to the HDD version, it also started supporting bluetooth audio streaming at this point. Before 2010 the bluetooth support was limited to phone calls. Also the 2009's will still have a cassette deck:
It's gone in the 2010+ cars.
Yeah I read something about the navi upgrade but did not know what it meant other than buying an upgrade disc. So you basically have to get the navi flashed after the 10 models???? i also did not know about the audio streaming so thanks.
Originally Posted by gr8fulRed
well the latest Consumer Reports just dropped the rating on the 08's and 09's for "major engine" issues (due to survey responses from owners during the last 10 months)...but it's fair to assume the 10's and 11's will soon follow as the miles accumulate. So..there's that.
As for price...seems these GS's are more reasonable here in the mid plain states (Ok, Texas, Kansas). 09's in great shape and under 100k miles, with Nav and ML stereo can be found here under 20k. Sometimes...well under. Cars.com and AutoTrader.com should yield some results. My 09', of course has the tape deck and I actually use it OCCASIONALLY for my R.E.M cassettes, lol..., but i think it looks better with something there (even though pretty much obsolete) than just the blank space on the 10's and 11's.
I really dont mind the tape deck being there, it looks strange with the unused space in the 10 but I dont think the wife would even care. i really want here to have one with a light interior. My LS is black on black and as we all know that needs constant maintenance. I rarely see any under 19,995 and I've expanded the search up to 200 miles on all the sites.
I did see an 09 450h for 21k with 80k on the clock. What are your thoughts on the hybrid? I started reading 1Sick review and he seemed to really like it.
well the latest Consumer Reports just dropped the rating on the 08's and 09's for "major engine" issues (due to survey responses from owners during the last 10 months)...but it's fair to assume the 10's and 11's will soon follow as the miles accumulate. So..there's that.
If this was really an issue, wouldn't we have a sticky thread about it? Consumer Reports, dealer recalls etc usually happen after there's a 10-15 page thread posted in the forums about the problem.
Originally Posted by gr8fulRed
As for price...seems these GS's are more reasonable here in the mid plain states (Ok, Texas, Kansas). 09's in great shape and under 100k miles, with Nav and ML stereo can be found here under 20k. Sometimes...well under. Cars.com and AutoTrader.com should yield some results.
+1 for AutoTrader, set the radius to ~500 miles and do an extensive search. You can specify exterior/interior color to narrow the search results. I flew to Georgia from Denver to buy my GS460, a plane ticket is pretty cheap compared to saving $2-3K on the right car.
Originally Posted by sha4000
Yeah I read something about the navi upgrade but did not know what it meant other than buying an upgrade disc. So you basically have to get the navi flashed after the 10 models????
The process for navi updates has now changed to using the USB port in the center console, and the dealer has to do it. With the old DVD version you could do it yourself. If you buy one from a dealer, just get them to throw this into the deal. It's like ~$150-175 list price, but the actual cost to them is negligible. Just their tech guy plugging the unit in then checking it every so often.
Originally Posted by sha4000
I did see an 09 450h for 21k with 80k on the clock. What are your thoughts on the hybrid? I started reading 1Sick review and he seemed to really like it.
More stuff to break IMO. Every hybrid you see on the road is a ticking time-bomb for a bad battery, nevermind the regenerative braking bits. It may not happen now, but 5 years from now? 10 years? The marginal improvement in MPG isn't worth the long-term cost of replacing the battery.
If you don't want just the base GS350, look at a pre-'10 GS460 (the '10+ cars will be $25-31K). A ~80K mile '08 example just sold here in Denver last year for like $18K.
+1 for AutoTrader, set the radius to ~500 miles and do an extensive search. You can specify exterior/interior color to narrow the search results. I flew to Georgia from Denver to buy my GS460, a plane ticket is pretty cheap compared to saving $2-3K on the right car.
The process for navi updates has now changed to using the USB port in the center console, and the dealer has to do it. With the old DVD version you could do it yourself. If you buy one from a dealer, just get them to throw this into the deal. It's like ~$150-175 list price, but the actual cost to them is negligible. Just their tech guy plugging the unit in then checking it every so often.
More stuff to break IMO. Every hybrid you see on the road is a ticking time-bomb for a bad battery, nevermind the regenerative braking bits. It may not happen now, but 5 years from now? 10 years? The marginal improvement in MPG isn't worth the long-term cost of replacing the battery.
If you don't want just the base GS350, look at a pre-'10 GS460 (the '10+ cars will be $25-31K). A ~80K mile '08 example just sold here in Denver last year for like $18K.
I'll expand the search area a lil more. My first thought about the hybrid is that if something went wrong it would be a expensive fix which I'm not qualified to do.
Originally Posted by verly6565
best go with 2010 its a little up to date with technology mine is a 2010 heres some features
Yeah I read something about the navi upgrade but did not know what it meant other than buying an upgrade disc. So you basically have to get the navi flashed after the 10 models???? i also did not know about the audio streaming so thanks.
I really dont mind the tape deck being there, it looks strange with the unused space in the 10 but I dont think the wife would even care. i really want here to have one with a light interior. My LS is black on black and as we all know that needs constant maintenance. I rarely see any under 19,995 and I've expanded the search up to 200 miles on all the sites.
I did see an 09 450h for 21k with 80k on the clock. What are your thoughts on the hybrid? I started reading 1Sick review and he seemed to really like it.
I looked for a clean, well priced GS for probably a year (was in no hurry as I was not replacing a vehicle...just adding one). I work with auto dealers and am constantly on lots and would look over any GS (07' and newer) that I would come across. I came across a 450H that was super slick (Silver on Black) with 75k miles, perfect cosmetically at a friend of mine's lot. Problem was...they realized after they bought it that it had a bad head gasket and that Lexus was saying it was going to need a motor at about $4500. I already knew that Hybrids in general have more risk for failure and then the FIRST 450 I see has a head gasket issue at 75k ....so I was spooked on those. I honestly never really considered one after that. I know that service contract providers charge more for covering a Hybrid "X", than they do a non-hybrid "X"....so I know there's a reason behind that. I figure the hybrid components are just more things that can fail...so wasn't really an option for me.
I would TRY to buy directly from an original owner if possible. I've landed many quality cars in my time and at VERY GOOD prices compared to auto dealers. Cut out the proverbial "middle man", lol if you can.
Deals are out there....but they require some patience. I had a lot of it...and it definitely paid off for me.
If this was really an issue, wouldn't we have a sticky thread about it? Consumer Reports, dealer recalls etc usually happen after there's a 10-15 page thread posted in the forums about the problem.
+1 for AutoTrader, set the radius to ~500 miles and do an extensive search. You can specify exterior/interior color to narrow the search results. I flew to Georgia from Denver to buy my GS460, a plane ticket is pretty cheap compared to saving $2-3K on the right car.
The process for navi updates has now changed to using the USB port in the center console, and the dealer has to do it. With the old DVD version you could do it yourself. If you buy one from a dealer, just get them to throw this into the deal. It's like ~$150-175 list price, but the actual cost to them is negligible. Just their tech guy plugging the unit in then checking it every so often.
More stuff to break IMO. Every hybrid you see on the road is a ticking time-bomb for a bad battery, nevermind the regenerative braking bits. It may not happen now, but 5 years from now? 10 years? The marginal improvement in MPG isn't worth the long-term cost of replacing the battery.
If you don't want just the base GS350, look at a pre-'10 GS460 (the '10+ cars will be $25-31K). A ~80K mile '08 example just sold here in Denver last year for like $18K.
It's the same engine from 2007 through the end of the 3GS, the 2GR-FSE. What changed in 2009? The only systemic issue I'm reading is carbon fouling due to direct injection, and that's only the 2.5L V6 in the IS250. Link:
"It's interesting to note that the 2.5L V6 in the Lexus IS250 (a direct injection engine) is experiencing severe carbon build-ups like everyone else. (Lexus extended the warranty on these cars and is offering free top engine cleans to address the problem.) However the same car is also available with a 3.5L V6 (the IS350) that uses two injectors per cylinder--one is direct injection and the other is standard port injection. These cars are *not* experiencing the typical direct injected carbon build up and all the forums keep pointing at the Lexus 2GR-FSE engine design as the solution to the problem.
"The 2GR-FSE employs what may be described as "hybrid direct-injection, port-injection strategy," the only known such system among volume production engines in the "emission control zone," according to Shizuo Abe, Toyota's product General Manager. He cites a sample operating condition at 1200 rpm with a 60% load ratio: with direct-injection alone, fuel tends to form in lumps due to heavier fuel volume and slow piston speed, lengthening combustion duration, and thus limiting torque output. On the other hand, port-injection alone would not necessarily be better. Adding 30 to 40% direct-injection to port-injection accelerates gas flow, significantly improves torque output. Injection ratio between the two injectors is continuously varied?for example 30 to 40% in a specific parameter, and increased to 50 to 60% in another zone?optimizing the mix and distribution. Ultimately in high-rpm zone, 100-percent direct-injection is used to obtain higher torque." Toyota has 300 patents on this system.
It appears that fuel flowing around the valves is necessary to prevent the carbon build up. I'm really happy we found a new car without direct injection, but it looks like Toyota was the first to implement a way to prevent the problem. It will be interesting to see if the other auto manufacturers do the same. "
If there's another prevalent issue with these engines, where's the forum posts on it? We'd be seeing tons of them, both here and in the IS350 forum.
It's the same engine from 2007 through the end of the 3GS, the 2GR-FSE. What changed in 2009? The only systemic issue I'm reading is carbon fouling due to direct injection, and that's only the 2.5L V6 in the IS250. Link:
If there's another prevalent issue with these engines, where's the forum posts on it? We'd be seeing tons of them, both here and in the IS350 forum.
Trust me....my line of thought is the same as yours on this...which you probably know if you read my responses in the thread I linked. I emailed Consumer Reports hoping for a decent explanation and was only told the following...
"Thank you for taking the time to contact Consumer Reports®. I want to express how much we value your choice of our products and services to help you make informed purchasing decisions.
The additional information you have requested about the report "2009 Lexus GS 350 Ratings Changes" in Consumer Reports magazine is as follows: Jim, I apologize for the confusion. The 2015 Annual survey revealed these changes in the performance of these vehicles as reported by owners over this year between the 2014 and 2015 Buyers guides being printed.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact our Subscription Department toll-free at 1-800-666-5261, Monday - Friday 8:00am - 8:00pm EST and Saturday 9:30am - 6:00pm EST. A representative will gladly assist you.
Consumer Reports is committed to making your experience positive and informative.
Sincerely,
Jackson O.
Representative
Customer Relations Department"
well, obviously that doesn't shed much light on things so I called the number and spoke to a representative. I was asking about "sampling sizes", specifically what findings their survey's rendered (specific failures), how many problems and for how long do they need to show up before CR's makes such dramatic changes (in only 10 months, no less) ....and of course the person had no real answers. Simply..."our ratings are based off of consumer surveys received during the time between the printing of the 2014 guide and now.."
So...based on that info....you HAVE to assume that this time next year, the 2010, 2011's will be showing "major engine" issues as well in their books.
Last edited by gr8fulRed; Apr 3, 2015 at 06:09 AM.
Not exactly what I was looking for but I like to know all the little things about stuff that bore other Ppl. Those are good reads. I've been driving an ls400 for the past 20 years and never had an issue with those engines. This will be the first AWD vehicle for us and since it's primarily for the wife I'm not even looking for RWD even though none have piped up in the search.
Looking at 09-10 GS 350s
