According to Popular Mechanics, September, 2003:

"2005 Lexus LS450

Lexus is readying an all-new flagship. Our spies say this computer-generated rendering is very close to what we will see in showrooms in late '04. The new model will likely be powered by a 4.6 liter V8 that's an updated version of the current 4.3 liter and is said to make close to 360 hp. It will be paired to an all-new 6-speed automatic but still drive the rear wheels. Rumors are swirling that this new LS will, for the first time, have a larger optional engine - possibly an all-new V12 producing well over 400 hp. Other sources hint the optional engine will be a 5.5 - liter V8 worth about 400 hp. You can expect a sport package with a semiactive suspension system and 19-in. tires to be on the options list."

Now Popular Mechanics may not be AutoSpies Inc. but finally details are leaking out about Lexus future. So, what would look like the safe bets for the next GS? GS450 with around 360hp and that will obviously go for the LS and SC as well. Don't even want to think about that IS430 turning into a 360hp monster. And if the LS gets an even bigger mill, my guess is the GS could as well. The V12 would probably make it in the LS but a 5.5 l 400hp or so version of the GS sounds pretty entertaining as well. Suspension? Well, if a sport suspension will be offered on the LS, maybe they haven't been sleeping on the suspension for the GS. Sounds like it would get 19s from the factory. Hybrid? My safe bet would be RX yes, GS no. AWD? Still don't know but I doubt it would be a safe bet.

With the V8 bimmer running around with 325 hp and the Merc running around at 302, I would say that Lexus is going to seriously raise the mark again, just like they did when the GS4 came out. Just when some car makers thought they were getting their market back with their new models I suspect they may find reason to be afraid, be very afraid. And enjoy things while you can because in a couple of years, you are going to have the two or three year old models that are going to look really behind the curve (as we could have predicted anyway).

Unfortunately the worst thing this may have done is to affect the guys who are looking to buy now rather than wait. Oh, and by the way, that computer generated image of the LS is quite nice and I would say the first real development of Lexus style in the LS rather than copying the last gen S class (which wasn't necessarily a bad thing). If they are close, it could make it tough for me to keep two GS's in the garage, one may be going in a few years for an LS. Choice is wonderful.

 

I would be very happy if this were true.

 

When news on the upcoming Lexi is showing up in PM, it is really starting to leak.

Don't know about the "semi-active" suspension. Don't mind active or passive but I don't want it to decide when to work.

 

Hopefully, this also means that a picture is not too far away either. I know you are lukewarm on the idea of AWD but I am still hoping the new GS will have it.

 

I'm not actually cool on AWD but, and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, Toyota doesn't have AWD on any production vehicle other than SUVs and other trucks and I doubt it will first show up on the GS. The rumor mill is flying on Toyota moving to Hybrid and AWD but the hybrids right now are all econo boxes and, like I said originally, I think that the safe bet would be no hybrid and no AWD. But that doesn't mean the safe bet is the right one. Maybe that next gen Supra will have a hybrid and AWD but I think the Lexus line will go that direction when there is no chance of a misstep. If the latest photos are at all correct, the next GS will be different and maybe slightly better but not a bangle bungle. If the V8 is standard with 350 to 360hp and the suspension gets some tweaks and the price stays slightly less than the equivalent bimmer or merc, I would be happy and be a customer. We are quickly getting to the point where Lexus customers are Lexus customers, bimmer customers are bimmer customers, merc customers are merc customers, etc., and there are actually very few that hop categories. Not saying no one does it but I just think there are loyalists and switchers and once we get to the point where Lexus is more concerned about their customers than taking away from another brand, well, actually things get more interesting in my mind.

One thing is for sure, all we have to do is wait a few months and we will all know a lot more about the next gens but from what is leaking out, Lexus won't make any steps backwards.

 

I hope your right about Lexus not taking any steps backward with the next GS. While I personally would love to see a AWD option on the car, it would not be a deal breaker.

It will be interesting though to see which direction Lexus goes. Do they listen to their enthusiasts or the market in general? The next few months will definitely be insightful.

 

i know someone who works for a Lex dealership and said that Lexus will be
coming out with a GS4 AWD... i kinda just brushed the idea on the side...
but mayeb it's true..

 

Don't really know about how they listen to enthusiasts but as for the market, it sure appears so. The LS is a great car but has found itself in a different category from the 7 and S class. If the next LS has that 350 to 360 hp V8 standard and an optional bigger motor, it is going to give some folks heartburn. Not sure Lexus really views itself as taking away either Merc or bimmer drivers but if they keep their price point, they are going to be a very viable alternative. Do they want to go up to 500hp and compete with the merc V12? I just don't think so. Too few customers. The picture of the PM article is difficult to describe but it looks like a really Lexus design, maybe for the first time ever on the LS. And it is pretty decent for a big sedan. Have to see it in the flesh to see how it compares to the looks of the S class, looks much better than the 7 where about the best you can say is that it is growing on you, even with the freshening.

Can't say I feel a strong need for the GS to get that extra 50 or 60 hp but if the price relationship stays the same, it sure means I won't really look at an E or 5, other than at an auto show. The merc and the bimmer don't have the size of the GS to me so it would be hard to go that way regardless. But if my analysis on these engines, and maybe the six speed, winding up in the GS are correct, the discounts on the E are going to get even bigger in a year. Funny how just when they thought they had caught up to the GS4 with the 302 hp E, a new one is going to put them back in the hole. Sure will be nice when we really get some concrete info on the new GS. Curious how there is more out on the next LS than the GS.

 

Straight 6,

Does your friend have any idea of what the new GS might look like?

 

We have already had the discussion and a lot of guys seem to think this is a given, if not standard, then as an option. I just think that for the next gen GS, it might be a little too soon. But then, watching some of the leaks, there is really starting to be some info coming out of Toyota. Is the rumored V10 supercar a unique model or is this what the next gen Supra is going to be? Doesn't seem like anyone really knows for sure. If you put enough info out there, people get confused as to what is going to show up on what model. The Forbes article seems to indicate that the hybrids are going to go first on the SUVs to bring their mileage up but there are reports of 400hp plus hybrids running around at Toyota. Who knows what is going where (and when) but it is finally looking like both Toyota and Lexus are getting ready to raise the bar. And I for one, couldn't be happier.

 

That worries me a little honestly. Wasnt there a quote from a Lexus VIP at the NY auto show that the next gen GS wont arrive until 06? If that happens, I might be the first person to die from "Next Generation Lexus GS" suspense .

 

Very good point. Without having any particular inside info (or at least claiming to) you have to wonder if the GS will really be out in earlier 04 as an 05. Possibly the E and new 5 have them making some late changes. I think you could certainly make that argument. What interested me is that we have very little idea what the body is going to look like but with Lexus history of having very few engines, it is safe to say that what winds up on the LS will likely wind up in the GS and SC. So that was the most usable part of the PM story. But as to what is going on with the GS and when, it sure seems like it is still a ways off. Sooner or later you start leaking some info just to get an initial reaction but the GS is still behind those closed doors. Inevitably, if it is going to really be out in eight months, the pictures start showing up of the cars testing in death valley and Sweden for the hot and cold weather real world tests but on the GS, nothing.

 

It just seems unlikely that Lexus would wait that long. Just from reading some of the previous threads on this forum, you hear current GS owners wanting more stuff here and there.

How long before people look elsewhere? Granted, not every car shopper wants the latest and greatest, but I would think that Lexus would not want the current GS line to look like a dinosaur compared to its competition.

 

I think with growing competiton from Lincoln, Infinit, Caddilac etc, Lexus has decided it will now take on Benz and BMW even more so HEAD ON and TOTALLY become one of the elite brands. I think Lexus is now thinking "to hell with your prestige, we want #1". My reasoning:

1. The new Lexus models offer just as many options as German counterparts and are no longer cheaper loaded. That means people are buying Lexus cause it is BETTER.
2. Lexus is already sold in Europe, winning decent reviews (unlike Infiniti, Lincoln etc which are not sold there) and will move GLOBALLY when starting in 2005, they will be badged Lexus in Japan.
3. Lexus KNOWS to be taken serious, your CHEAPEST car cannot be your best car, you need your FLAGSHIPS to be well, FLAGSHIPS (Cough Q45, cough A8) and the LS 430 will no longer hide in the shadows of more powerful competition (though looking at sales, it seems no one is complaining).
4. Lexus is offering more options with more gadgets, as they stated they would 2 years AGO, to seperate themselves more from Toyota.
5.Rumored V-10 Lexus supercar, the HALO of the brand.

I am excited and glad to be part of this "movement".

Jeez, luxury cars used to basically suck before Lexus (and to a lesser extent Infiniti) came along.

 

And how easy it was to forget just where the GS4 fell in the comparos when it came out. If the PM article is right, and I am right about the engines being across the board, my guess is that the GS will, at a minimum, retake the 0-60 bragging rights (might not mean that much but when combined with the price, it generates sales) easily from the 540 (or whatever they are going to call the V8, even with a manual) and the E 500. And if they are seriously thinking about offering a big gun in the LS, it might not go up to M category but does anyone seriously think they wouldn't offer it in the GS as well? I think a V12 might have a hard time fitting, especially because the GS3 is probably going V, but a hot V8 or maybe that Supra V10 would fit. And probably at a price smack between a 540 and M5.

From what I have seen of the spy shots of the new A6, it isn't going to do it for me. Their supposed Auto-Union look just doesn't work from what I can see. Opinions here to the contrary, I am almost insulted by the M45. Instead of a true mid sport sedan it is a weak rebadge of a domestic model with an engine that doesn't perform like the numbers say it should. And, like I said, for now the E is new and the 5 will be new shortly. But early '05 when the new GS will almost definitely be here and in quantity, well, you know how this is going to go. But I have to tell you, if the LS gets close to the PM picture, and I hesitate to describe it, with the hp they are throwing about, it is also going to see some healthy increases in sales numbers. And isn't it nice to take the reliability for granted, just like the lack of it is taken for granted in a new bimmer or merc?

Like I said, the hardest part is if you are in the position of wondering whether to get a current model (GS, E, or 5) or wait. I would have originally said get that good price on a current GS or those considerable discounts on the new E but now I would lean towards waiting. With any luck, it won't be that long.