GS430 MAJOR issues (needs service) - HELP!
01-23-09, 06:09 PM
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GS430 MAJOR issues (needs service) - HELP!
The car has had 2-3k miles in the past year, sitting a couple of months until recently. It is a fairly standard equipped 01 GS430 (no nav/levinson) with 79k. I drove the car 300 miles and during noticed "friction/resistance" like noise coming from the two front wheel/tire area and light/moderate "steering wheel shake" once brakes are applied at speed (on highway). The car belongs to a family member and hasn't been serviced per recommended service interval.
A year ago the lower radiator hose sprung a leak and subsequently replaced (coolant/lower hose). A year 1/2 ago or so the TB/plugs were changed along with other items (not suspension related, believe equivalent to 50-60k service?). Transmission showed signs of "light slippage" during the time radiator hose sprung leak (about a year ago, highly possible this is original fluid). A month later, the car started hesitating in rush hour and wouldn't start (ended up being gas gauge is inaccurate under 1/4 tank, accurate above 1/2).
I was on the highway for 10-15 minutes and stopped to fill up. I noticed water temperature fluctuating (3/4 or slightly above mid-point) but wouldn't happen on the highway. I smelt what was thought a hint of coolant getting back on the on-ramp but dismissed it as paranoia (ha, better to be safe than sorry) on the way back home, reached a light and noticed steam coming from engine bay. The upper radiator hose had popped off and engine bay was covered in coolant, had a wrench handy, loosened the clamp and slid the hose back into place driving the car home some 2-3 miles (after cool down).
A family member had the oil changed shortly after lower radiator hose leak, and told there was "fluid" in the oil and needed to be checked by a tech. This struck my attention once the upper radiator hose popped off, hoping it wasn't related to a previous overheat that led to a head gasket problem indicated by the upper radiator hose blowing off. The car was towed into a trustworthy local garage earlier this week for a "more comprehensive analysis" and mental image/idea what the actual condition of the car was - the oil was dirty, but nothing out of the ordinary (no odor/fluid) except oil was leaking from valve cover gasket. I was informed the car had no coolant and in need of a thermostat (around 1pm).
I recently sold another car, determined not to make the same mistake (doing things over twice). figured once the car was in the air, car could be checked/inspected having a rough idea of the condition of components on the car (any leaks, physical or structural irregularities to be noted, brakes, suspension) and mentioned the belief of transmission fluid and was told "would be put on lift and inspected then" and noisy passenger front shock.
I made my position/intent clear to have car fixed as economic/efficient method possible as it was being taken to CarMax. I arrived at the shop at 5pm (had been running late, wasn't able to have car put on lift) and greeted by the shop foreman, and met with a defensive demeanor. I was told I had a "$1000" car and had been mistreated/abused. I told him to elaborate as to the neglected areas that needed to be tended and replied with "we can spend $200 and nit-pick the car to death, but you need to get the car running (need to know the direction you want to take with the car, since you don't want to 'spend' money on it -- without coolant we can't exactly drive the car far).
In the past months I noticed throttle hesitation, but with intermittent codes at best I figured to give ol' CNC MAF cleaner a shot (never got around to this). I was told the reason for the car "falling flat on its face" was related to a MAF issue (possible) but no guarantees and other things 'may' need to be addressed (what I'm trying to avoid and intent was to get a rough idea what were troubled areas, afterall) -- replacement was recommended.
the car needs work. I'm a bit apprehensive since I had a previous experience turned nightmare (had oil leak, pan had to come down) and had a clutch job/suspension overhaul performed which 3/4 of the components to be removed were done then. This could have been avoided by simply removing plastics and a basic inspection would have revealed leaks/suspension related problems that even then were not addressed. The brakes/suspension were not mentioned but was told they are "OK" and vibration typically stems from a warped rotor.
in total, the car has:
brake light on (which would appear when you engage ebrake) - pads are 'fine' - what is this?
inaccurate gas gauge (accurate over 1/2 tank) - fuel level sensor (extent of system?)
resistance sound coming from driver/pass front wheel area (speed dependent) - bearing related? yet to be diagnosed
noisy front passenger shock (certain road conditions precipitate the problem) - rare occasion, yet to be diagnosed
vibrating steering wheel (on highway past 60mph during braking) - BRAKE/BEARING related (yet to be diagnosed)
"pop" noise backing out of driveway (on uneven pavement) at random - SUSPENSION RELATED (yet to be diagnosed)
oil leaking from valve cover gasket (as if none existed supposedly) -- shop/DIY
needs thermostat/coolant flush (none inside reservoir) -- shop/DIY
3 failed door lock actuators (have these in garage ordered a year ago x 3) -- DIY
transmission no longer shows signs of slippage -- FLUID FLUSH
two VSC related lights after 'coolant hose' blew off (on dash/wheel speed sensor?)
intermittent CEL prior to upper radiator hose blowing, but would go away with a cycle (went to advanced, restarted car no CEL) to be measured
water temp recently fluctuating, upper radiator hose blew off sending coolant anywhere but the radiator (needs coolant) - car overheated, cooled down and driven 2-3 miles - a family mechanic said this would be caused by a head gasket problem, especially if oil was "watery" after the lower radiator hose had been replaced (last oil change). nothing atypical noted in performed oil change (foreman said guy must have been an "idiot")
I called Carson Lexus vaguely explaining said symptoms/describing car and from the sound, drop links at the least would be required. without knowing the actual condition of the car, shooting to dispel the mechanic issues is certainly a start (depending on depth the car requires to operate safely). otherwise, fluids/brakes along with ordinary maintenance at this time is OK. I find it unreasonable to have a car that has issues not only impeding on its function, but essentially given the 'cold shoulder' when asked for a more elaborate analysis and overall condition of major components to decide not only cost, but amount of influence certain components had on the ability to trade the car in altogether, especially since the car had been overheated and was told there was 'liquid' in the last oil change (along the other "problems")
I was quoted the following (per est):
thermostat - $18.44/ea (qt 1)
thermostat gasket - $4.14 (qt 1)
valve cover gasket $14.17 (qt 2)
coolant - $20.00 (qt 1)
air mass meter - $178.88 (qt 1)
labor (parts not included)
replace thermostat/coolant flush - $135
replace valve cover gasket - $225
---
if the car had slightly more utility suiting my purpose/needs, I'd definitely keep it. the hourly shop rate is $90/hr and excessive for valve cover gasket exchange as I am told. I was quoted $13x.xx for mass air flow sensor/and some $4x.xx for thermostat from Carson. I'd like to personally thank Cesar @ Carson Lexus Parts for translating this into something understandable while educating me on these phenomenal cars, genuine class act and couldn't say more on his behalf.
does this pricing sound reasonable as quoted by independent shop? how involved is replacement of valve cover gasket/thermostat? shop owes me some $130-140 worth of work since they scratched a lower steering wheel trim piece on my new steering wheel off my BMW, offered replacement. figure hope for the best, expect the worst. front/rear rotors/pads tie rods/drop links and 2 front wheel bearings, valve cover gasket, plugs, transmission fluid/coolant flush and possible MAF.
any thoughts/ideas/impressions are appreciated -- this is driving me INSANE!
A year ago the lower radiator hose sprung a leak and subsequently replaced (coolant/lower hose). A year 1/2 ago or so the TB/plugs were changed along with other items (not suspension related, believe equivalent to 50-60k service?). Transmission showed signs of "light slippage" during the time radiator hose sprung leak (about a year ago, highly possible this is original fluid). A month later, the car started hesitating in rush hour and wouldn't start (ended up being gas gauge is inaccurate under 1/4 tank, accurate above 1/2).
I was on the highway for 10-15 minutes and stopped to fill up. I noticed water temperature fluctuating (3/4 or slightly above mid-point) but wouldn't happen on the highway. I smelt what was thought a hint of coolant getting back on the on-ramp but dismissed it as paranoia (ha, better to be safe than sorry) on the way back home, reached a light and noticed steam coming from engine bay. The upper radiator hose had popped off and engine bay was covered in coolant, had a wrench handy, loosened the clamp and slid the hose back into place driving the car home some 2-3 miles (after cool down).
A family member had the oil changed shortly after lower radiator hose leak, and told there was "fluid" in the oil and needed to be checked by a tech. This struck my attention once the upper radiator hose popped off, hoping it wasn't related to a previous overheat that led to a head gasket problem indicated by the upper radiator hose blowing off. The car was towed into a trustworthy local garage earlier this week for a "more comprehensive analysis" and mental image/idea what the actual condition of the car was - the oil was dirty, but nothing out of the ordinary (no odor/fluid) except oil was leaking from valve cover gasket. I was informed the car had no coolant and in need of a thermostat (around 1pm).
I recently sold another car, determined not to make the same mistake (doing things over twice). figured once the car was in the air, car could be checked/inspected having a rough idea of the condition of components on the car (any leaks, physical or structural irregularities to be noted, brakes, suspension) and mentioned the belief of transmission fluid and was told "would be put on lift and inspected then" and noisy passenger front shock.
I made my position/intent clear to have car fixed as economic/efficient method possible as it was being taken to CarMax. I arrived at the shop at 5pm (had been running late, wasn't able to have car put on lift) and greeted by the shop foreman, and met with a defensive demeanor. I was told I had a "$1000" car and had been mistreated/abused. I told him to elaborate as to the neglected areas that needed to be tended and replied with "we can spend $200 and nit-pick the car to death, but you need to get the car running (need to know the direction you want to take with the car, since you don't want to 'spend' money on it -- without coolant we can't exactly drive the car far).
In the past months I noticed throttle hesitation, but with intermittent codes at best I figured to give ol' CNC MAF cleaner a shot (never got around to this). I was told the reason for the car "falling flat on its face" was related to a MAF issue (possible) but no guarantees and other things 'may' need to be addressed (what I'm trying to avoid and intent was to get a rough idea what were troubled areas, afterall) -- replacement was recommended.
the car needs work. I'm a bit apprehensive since I had a previous experience turned nightmare (had oil leak, pan had to come down) and had a clutch job/suspension overhaul performed which 3/4 of the components to be removed were done then. This could have been avoided by simply removing plastics and a basic inspection would have revealed leaks/suspension related problems that even then were not addressed. The brakes/suspension were not mentioned but was told they are "OK" and vibration typically stems from a warped rotor.
in total, the car has:
brake light on (which would appear when you engage ebrake) - pads are 'fine' - what is this?
inaccurate gas gauge (accurate over 1/2 tank) - fuel level sensor (extent of system?)
resistance sound coming from driver/pass front wheel area (speed dependent) - bearing related? yet to be diagnosed
noisy front passenger shock (certain road conditions precipitate the problem) - rare occasion, yet to be diagnosed
vibrating steering wheel (on highway past 60mph during braking) - BRAKE/BEARING related (yet to be diagnosed)
"pop" noise backing out of driveway (on uneven pavement) at random - SUSPENSION RELATED (yet to be diagnosed)
oil leaking from valve cover gasket (as if none existed supposedly) -- shop/DIY
needs thermostat/coolant flush (none inside reservoir) -- shop/DIY
3 failed door lock actuators (have these in garage ordered a year ago x 3) -- DIY
transmission no longer shows signs of slippage -- FLUID FLUSH
two VSC related lights after 'coolant hose' blew off (on dash/wheel speed sensor?)
intermittent CEL prior to upper radiator hose blowing, but would go away with a cycle (went to advanced, restarted car no CEL) to be measured
water temp recently fluctuating, upper radiator hose blew off sending coolant anywhere but the radiator (needs coolant) - car overheated, cooled down and driven 2-3 miles - a family mechanic said this would be caused by a head gasket problem, especially if oil was "watery" after the lower radiator hose had been replaced (last oil change). nothing atypical noted in performed oil change (foreman said guy must have been an "idiot")
I called Carson Lexus vaguely explaining said symptoms/describing car and from the sound, drop links at the least would be required. without knowing the actual condition of the car, shooting to dispel the mechanic issues is certainly a start (depending on depth the car requires to operate safely). otherwise, fluids/brakes along with ordinary maintenance at this time is OK. I find it unreasonable to have a car that has issues not only impeding on its function, but essentially given the 'cold shoulder' when asked for a more elaborate analysis and overall condition of major components to decide not only cost, but amount of influence certain components had on the ability to trade the car in altogether, especially since the car had been overheated and was told there was 'liquid' in the last oil change (along the other "problems")
I was quoted the following (per est):
thermostat - $18.44/ea (qt 1)
thermostat gasket - $4.14 (qt 1)
valve cover gasket $14.17 (qt 2)
coolant - $20.00 (qt 1)
air mass meter - $178.88 (qt 1)
labor (parts not included)
replace thermostat/coolant flush - $135
replace valve cover gasket - $225
---
if the car had slightly more utility suiting my purpose/needs, I'd definitely keep it. the hourly shop rate is $90/hr and excessive for valve cover gasket exchange as I am told. I was quoted $13x.xx for mass air flow sensor/and some $4x.xx for thermostat from Carson. I'd like to personally thank Cesar @ Carson Lexus Parts for translating this into something understandable while educating me on these phenomenal cars, genuine class act and couldn't say more on his behalf.
does this pricing sound reasonable as quoted by independent shop? how involved is replacement of valve cover gasket/thermostat? shop owes me some $130-140 worth of work since they scratched a lower steering wheel trim piece on my new steering wheel off my BMW, offered replacement. figure hope for the best, expect the worst. front/rear rotors/pads tie rods/drop links and 2 front wheel bearings, valve cover gasket, plugs, transmission fluid/coolant flush and possible MAF.
any thoughts/ideas/impressions are appreciated -- this is driving me INSANE!
Last edited by deja; 01-23-09 at 07:08 PM.
01-23-09, 07:02 PM
#2
well from what i'm able to gather (in order):
-brake fluid leak somewhere along the line, check rear pads too. If theyre too low the fluid level will drop triggering the light also.
-Gas tank floater is probably bad, easy fix.
-Wheel bearing bad, either front pass. or both
-bad shock on the front pass.
-warped rotors, possibly just need to be turned. Also investigate steering rack bushings and possibly tightening the steering tensioner.
-Ball joints bad (popping on uneven pave)
-Valve cover seals
-brake fluid leak somewhere along the line, check rear pads too. If theyre too low the fluid level will drop triggering the light also.
-Gas tank floater is probably bad, easy fix.
-Wheel bearing bad, either front pass. or both
-bad shock on the front pass.
-warped rotors, possibly just need to be turned. Also investigate steering rack bushings and possibly tightening the steering tensioner.
-Ball joints bad (popping on uneven pave)
-Valve cover seals
01-24-09, 03:36 PM
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Unfortunately I agree on this one. I have an 01 430 with 96K miles that I have had since new. The entire non scheduled maintenance on this car has been replacing the leaky headlights under warranty. That's it. With the problems listed I just have the feeling that it was in a pretty good accident or has been receiving maintenance where it shouldn't be done. Man, I wish I didn't have that opinion.
That service a 1/2 year ago for "TB/plugs" raises a question. Is TB timing belt? I just had mine done at the 90K service and even that was not viewed as necessary by Lexus just the recommended time to think about it. I was more than happy to have Lexus replace it with the water pump and seals as part of a package. If I had to guess, I would look at that service as having something to do with the head gasket, or what looks a lot like a head gasket, leak being made if somebody got into the engine for timing belt at that time.
That service a 1/2 year ago for "TB/plugs" raises a question. Is TB timing belt? I just had mine done at the 90K service and even that was not viewed as necessary by Lexus just the recommended time to think about it. I was more than happy to have Lexus replace it with the water pump and seals as part of a package. If I had to guess, I would look at that service as having something to do with the head gasket, or what looks a lot like a head gasket, leak being made if somebody got into the engine for timing belt at that time.
01-24-09, 04:06 PM
#7
Unfortunately I agree on this one. I have an 01 430 with 96K miles that I have had since new. The entire non scheduled maintenance on this car has been replacing the leaky headlights under warranty. That's it. With the problems listed I just have the feeling that it was in a pretty good accident or has been receiving maintenance where it shouldn't be done. Man, I wish I didn't have that opinion.
That service a 1/2 year ago for "TB/plugs" raises a question. Is TB timing belt? I just had mine done at the 90K service and even that was not viewed as necessary by Lexus just the recommended time to think about it. I was more than happy to have Lexus replace it with the water pump and seals as part of a package. If I had to guess, I would look at that service as having something to do with the head gasket, or what looks a lot like a head gasket, leak being made if somebody got into the engine for timing belt at that time.
That service a 1/2 year ago for "TB/plugs" raises a question. Is TB timing belt? I just had mine done at the 90K service and even that was not viewed as necessary by Lexus just the recommended time to think about it. I was more than happy to have Lexus replace it with the water pump and seals as part of a package. If I had to guess, I would look at that service as having something to do with the head gasket, or what looks a lot like a head gasket, leak being made if somebody got into the engine for timing belt at that time.
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01-24-09, 05:23 PM
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01-26-09, 12:21 AM
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UPDATE: sorry for the delayed response, just got back into town. shop evidently was open Saturday and was to make contact but never materialized. apologize for being unclear, the TB was "cleaned" and never replaced (referencing to throttle body excluding timing belt)
the mechanical aspect would be more specifically isolated once the car has a functional cooling system (thermostat/coolant) and overheating can be ruled out (most indicative factor in a blown head gasket, no?) --
My biggest concern is the additional expense from a damaged head gasket, worst case scenario heavy influence on ability to trade vehicle among other issues. I noticed the car idling high (1500-1600 RPMs) after upper radiator hose popped off, also read this would cause the car to idle "funny" contributing factor lack of coolant. I figured inspecting/replacing plugs would be indicative of what "went on" in the cylinders during the period.
thermostat - $18.44/ea (qt 1)
thermostat gasket - $4.14 (qt 1)
coolant - $20.00 (qt 1)
labor (parts not included)
replace thermostat/coolant flush - $135
needs work. not necessarily "3-5" hours of tugging/pulling in tight spaces removing a transmission. does $170 sound excessive for replacing thermostat/putting coolant inside the car?? figure if there are any leaks they can be addressed, or if it overheats it can be more thoroughly investigated. I have a mechanically inclined friend and likely will do a entire fluid flush on the car, however, the shop does owe me some work and do not intend on driving the car; after it is restored to its original state of function (needs badges/master key fitted/ordered).
the car has its quirks, but it is time to move on, bearing it not costing a fortune to get this thing back on the road (do have some time). prior to authorizing foreman to perform work as suggested (1/27) -- is there any procedural elimination to determine if the car "overheats" by means of running water as a temporary cooling medium?
I feel as I am in good hands and appreciate your responses - thanks!
the mechanical aspect would be more specifically isolated once the car has a functional cooling system (thermostat/coolant) and overheating can be ruled out (most indicative factor in a blown head gasket, no?) --
My biggest concern is the additional expense from a damaged head gasket, worst case scenario heavy influence on ability to trade vehicle among other issues. I noticed the car idling high (1500-1600 RPMs) after upper radiator hose popped off, also read this would cause the car to idle "funny" contributing factor lack of coolant. I figured inspecting/replacing plugs would be indicative of what "went on" in the cylinders during the period.
thermostat - $18.44/ea (qt 1)
thermostat gasket - $4.14 (qt 1)
coolant - $20.00 (qt 1)
labor (parts not included)
replace thermostat/coolant flush - $135
needs work. not necessarily "3-5" hours of tugging/pulling in tight spaces removing a transmission. does $170 sound excessive for replacing thermostat/putting coolant inside the car?? figure if there are any leaks they can be addressed, or if it overheats it can be more thoroughly investigated. I have a mechanically inclined friend and likely will do a entire fluid flush on the car, however, the shop does owe me some work and do not intend on driving the car; after it is restored to its original state of function (needs badges/master key fitted/ordered).
the car has its quirks, but it is time to move on, bearing it not costing a fortune to get this thing back on the road (do have some time). prior to authorizing foreman to perform work as suggested (1/27) -- is there any procedural elimination to determine if the car "overheats" by means of running water as a temporary cooling medium?
I feel as I am in good hands and appreciate your responses - thanks!
Last edited by deja; 01-26-09 at 01:04 AM.
01-26-09, 08:32 AM
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They could test the coolant for exhaust gases, test the oil for coolant, do a pressure leak down test on all cylinders all without running the motor.
I would rather have my money (mechanic) do the above test than a coolant flush and a new thermostat.
good luck
I would rather have my money (mechanic) do the above test than a coolant flush and a new thermostat.
good luck
02-02-09, 12:42 AM
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waiting on shop -- keep you guys posted. thanks for the advice.
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