sTWO:

"are you skeptical that bleeding the brakes anymore will help?"

"Skeptical" isn't quite strong enough.

I suggest that you monitor the MB forums on Edmunds before you conclude that Lexus isn't the next car for you. I believe you'll find at least as frequent and equally serious issues as you're experiencing with your GS.

For your immediate problem, I suggest:
1) Drive another GS, same year as yours. Conduct light, moderate & heavy stops. TAKE NOTES after each.
2) Drive a GS of the vintage your dealer claims your brakes are from. Conduct light, moderate & heavy stops. TAKE NOTES after each.
3) Do the same with your car.

If possible, have another person do the same.

Review your notes & write out your conclusions.

Discuss your conclusions & notes with Service Manager. If you & Service Manager disagree, talk with Dealer General Manager. Ask each of them to sign & date a copy of your notes, acknowledging that they have read them.

Above all, be pleasant, factual & unemotional.

Yep, what I suggest is a lot of work. It's also what I believe to be the most direct route to a solution.

 

Yes, If you think Lexus is bad, M-B is terrible, especially here in B.R.. Lexus definitely gets on their knees and kisses mucho butt compared to M-B. I couldn't get rid of my M-B fast enough so I could buy my Lexus. I could go on and on about these people(M-B dealership). I think you will be very impressed with Price Leblanc Lexus.

 

Off topic - I appreciate your comments. I am really AC/DC on the CL 500 and a few other things are going on that could well have me just get the deposit back. I really may not take it but like I have said before, after too many other cars to name, the only car my wife said she wanted one just like was the GS so its a keeper. Also just want to restate, if the dealer is not treating you right or doing shoddy work, there is no excuse but looking through a lot of the past posts here, it is not a common occurence for Lexus. I just hope sTWO can get some satisfaction.

 

sTwo - Before you jump on a CL, I suggest following some MB forums on the CL, you might reconsider...

And I agree with others, just because you got bad service from one dealership doesn't mean you should just outright badmouth Lexus as a whole. I too hate my local Lexus dealerships sales department but that doesn't mean I wouldn't buy another one (from another dealer of course!)...but I've had nothing but AMAZING service from that same dealership (go figure!)

Also, wait until you have to deal with the Mercedes service department...remember, they're doing YOU a favor by ALLOWING you to bring your car to them...

 

GS430_4Me,
While I applaud your efforts to help sTWO, no where on your link site does it say that no vacuum booster is used in an integrated ABS system. In fact if you look in in the upper right hand corner of the diagram, you'll see a large black object connected to the hydraulic manifold... yep, that's the booster. ABS is a 'portion' of a total brake system, not a replacement for one. But, if you still doubt me, you might refer to page 181 of your owners manual, where it states that the brake system uses a power boost, in addition to two independant hydraulic systems, and if either of these fail, the pedal will be harder to depress. In my earlier post, I merely took the lack of warning lights from the highly sensorized section of the brake system and suggested that the problem might be in the less complicated end of the system, the booster. I believe we both want sTWO to have the same end results.
Regards,

 

sTWO,
Thanks for your offer! You can contact me via mumbles@clublexus.com.

 

Mumbles,

I had a tough time getting back to the site I referenced. Following is its URL. Following that is a quote from the article. I hope you have better luck than I did getting to the page.

I agree that the GS has a "booster". With integrated ABS systems, the booster is hydraulic. Look under the hood of a GS & you'll see the pump (booster) on the passenger side of the master cylinder. It's a cylinder about three inches in diameter and 4 inches tall. A vacuum booster would have to be several times larger in order to produce the necessary 2,000 psi. From your experience, you probably remember seeing them as being about 12 inches in diameter. (Some were smaller in diameter, with two being used in tandem)

For verification, try this test: With engine off & hood up, pump the brake pedal 15-20 times, until the feel changes noticeably. (This exhausts the hydraulic accumulator) Then, with one foot outside the car (for quick exit) start the engine, and AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN, get your hand under the hood & feel the lower part of the cylinder I described above. You'll feel a slight sensation of a running electric motor, soon followed by the 'click' of the pressure switch & the electric motor sensation will stop.

There is no vacuum brake booster on this car. If you still doubt this, check with your dealer's brake technician.


"http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=anti-lock-brake.htm&url=http://www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/ency14a.asp"

"Computers and boosters

For boost, add-on systems simply rely on the normal vacuum type, whereas integrated ABS employs hydraulic force either from the power steering circuit or an electric pump mounted toward the rear of the master cylinder. Using our Teves example again, the electric pump is energized through a pressure switch for 6-10 seconds at a time to maintain over 2,000 psi in a nitrogen-charged accumulator, enough for numerous power-assisted stops in case of pump failure."

Peace?

 

Mumbles,

I understand why we get different results from that site. I tried to get back to the quote from my previous post, & had to wander all over the place.

Once at the referenced site, go to table of contents for brakes, then section K, then page down about two pages. Good luck.

 

GS430_4Me,
I have to agree with you on this one! While the GS has a booster it is in fact not vacuum pressurized. Thanks for setting me straight As for "Peace?", absolutely! I never had any hard feelings, and I hope you didn't either!
Regards,

 

[ Edited by Moderator ]

 

Guys,

We're spending much too much time and energy on this. If sTWO thinks that Lexus is the wrong car for him that's his right. He should buy whatever car he wishes to for his next car and I wish him the best with whatever it is.

I don't believe it is our place to convince someone otherwise.

sTWO, I suspect you'll be selling your Lex soon. I hope you're happier with whatever your next car is.

Peace.

 

Mumbles: You're a good man.

Maxima: I refuse to take your bait.

 

Thanks for the kind words! And for what it's worth, I used to own a Maxima, and STILL didn't take the bait...

 

Number 1 there is no such thing as too much brake fluid( unless it spills out and peels the paint) if the lines where not full off fluid there would be air in the system causing a spongy pedal. there is a special procedure for bleeding the brakes on that system,you need a special scan tool to do this.

Number 2 There is no differance in 99 - 00 brake boosters( only a update every company changes things around, you can not get a origanal 99 booster it has changed just like these computers(p.c's) every 6 months)

Number 3 DO NOT bad mouth a tech if he puts things back to factory specs,he or any body else does not know what kind of crap you have put on your car. It comes in for warranty work they replace what is not working, they do not know if it has after market parts, like a light bulb, on it.
I am sorry that you are not satisfied . but from my knowlege other dealers have not been able to make you happy either

 

Too much brake fluid? Just who originately that idea?

Impossible!

Anyone who has ever changed out brake pads knows that as you force the pistons to retract, the "excess" fluid is pushed back into the reservoir.

That's also exactly what happens when you release the brakes, the conbination of pistion retraction spring tension and rotor pressure will always move the piston backward, forcing any "excess" fluid back into the reservoir.

Now it is possible to have a brake piston or pistons seized into the cylinder bore, but anyone would soon know if that were the case.