What is an EV?
06-19-23, 01:39 PM
#31
If you pay Lexus $150 to change your oil, then sure. Ater 106k miles on my 3IS, I've only spent money on the usual $30 oil change kits from Autozone, $5 bottles of brake fluid and a couple $25 of SLL coolant from Toyota.
Assuming 10k mile oil change intervals per the manual, that's about $300 on oil, lets call it $50 on brake fluid because I'm pretty generous with my flushes, and $100 on coolant to flush and a little extra for reserves. Oh, and also one set of spark plugs.
So, $500 for 106k miles, which is about 9 years of owernship for most assuming 12k miles/year. Probably the verdict is still out on long term ownership of what is an EV. Not because nobody has ever driven one hard for 10 years, but because the sample size is a very small fraction of its counterpart.
Assuming 10k mile oil change intervals per the manual, that's about $300 on oil, lets call it $50 on brake fluid because I'm pretty generous with my flushes, and $100 on coolant to flush and a little extra for reserves. Oh, and also one set of spark plugs.
So, $500 for 106k miles, which is about 9 years of owernship for most assuming 12k miles/year. Probably the verdict is still out on long term ownership of what is an EV. Not because nobody has ever driven one hard for 10 years, but because the sample size is a very small fraction of its counterpart.
I agree strongly about the last part. It's way too early in the EV era to definitively say that these are lower cost to maintain than a 2002 Camry all the way to 300-400k miles. I used 2002 because that was the first year of the timing chain. Lol still very reliable cars. The batteries on these EV's that go out before 300k miles will cost a ton to replace, meanwhile the engines on Camry's, Accord's, etc can rack up the mileage way above 300k.
06-19-23, 01:50 PM
#32
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Don't talk sense to all these EV owners. They constantly try to say how no maintenance on their cars make their purchase superior to ours. All cars need suspension replacement, brakes, and tires, EV's included. EV owners make you believe that $60 on oil changes per year is "so much on maintenance."
I agree strongly about the last part. It's way too early in the EV era to definitively say that these are lower cost to maintain than a 2002 Camry all the way to 300-400k miles. I used 2002 because that was the first year of the timing chain. Lol still very reliable cars. The batteries on these EV's that go out before 300k miles will cost a ton to replace, meanwhile the engines on Camry's, Accord's, etc can rack up the mileage way above 300k.
I agree strongly about the last part. It's way too early in the EV era to definitively say that these are lower cost to maintain than a 2002 Camry all the way to 300-400k miles. I used 2002 because that was the first year of the timing chain. Lol still very reliable cars. The batteries on these EV's that go out before 300k miles will cost a ton to replace, meanwhile the engines on Camry's, Accord's, etc can rack up the mileage way above 300k.
Some things I agree with and some things I don't, and that's ok.
Maybe you can make a *** NEW THREAD *** about EV vs ICE if that's what you like to talk about. Cool deal bro.
< PS- Just fyi for anyone following along, come in here and throw rocks at other people and get yourself instantly reported to the mods >
Last edited by Margate330; 06-19-23 at 02:09 PM.
06-19-23, 02:13 PM
#33
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
I'm moving this thread to the new EV chat forum and advise some of the folks posting in it to STOP now and read the sticky rules at the top. As the saying goes "you may be first against the wall"...
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ev-...n-ev-chat.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ev-...n-ev-chat.html
Last edited by DaveGS4; 06-19-23 at 02:35 PM.
06-19-23, 02:26 PM
#34
Lexus Champion
06-19-23, 02:44 PM
#35
Lead Lap
Some things I agree with and some things I don't, and that's ok.
Maybe you can make a *** NEW THREAD *** about EV vs ICE if that's what you like to talk about. Cool deal bro.
< PS- Just fyi for anyone following along, come in here and throw rocks at other people and get yourself instantly reported to the mods, and I don't care who you are. .>
Maybe you can make a *** NEW THREAD *** about EV vs ICE if that's what you like to talk about. Cool deal bro.
< PS- Just fyi for anyone following along, come in here and throw rocks at other people and get yourself instantly reported to the mods, and I don't care who you are. .>
From the industry side, the EV charging industry knows there's lots of work to do. I guess it's good to have a target, but a goal and an ultimatum are not the same thing and the public proclamations sound more like the latter. The industry does need enthusiastic early adopters. I want people to embrace and enjoy EVs if they choose to do so. No one is forcing anyone to adopt EVs and it's not either or. Come 2035, assuming that deadline sticks, you can still have your ICE and there will still be places to buy fuel. I am guessing there will still be many, but it's a guess.
06-19-23, 03:00 PM
#36
My personal opinion is that the hard government push for EV adoption with what I consider to be arbitrary deadlines is off putting to lots of ICE people. A softer approach and offering great products before imposing a deadline out of the thin blue sky would lead to less resistance.
From the industry side, the EV charging industry knows there's lots of work to do. I guess it's good to have a target, but a goal and an ultimatum are not the same thing and the public proclamations sound more like the latter. The industry does need enthusiastic early adopters. I want people to embrace and enjoy EVs if they choose to do so. No one is forcing anyone to adopt EVs and it's not either or. Come 2035, assuming that deadline sticks, you can still have your ICE and there will still be places to buy fuel. I am guessing there will still be many, but it's a guess.
From the industry side, the EV charging industry knows there's lots of work to do. I guess it's good to have a target, but a goal and an ultimatum are not the same thing and the public proclamations sound more like the latter. The industry does need enthusiastic early adopters. I want people to embrace and enjoy EVs if they choose to do so. No one is forcing anyone to adopt EVs and it's not either or. Come 2035, assuming that deadline sticks, you can still have your ICE and there will still be places to buy fuel. I am guessing there will still be many, but it's a guess.
A new Camry gets 41 mpg, has over 200 hp, and while I don't like the looks of it, a lot of folks do. By 2035, if Toyota kept building the Camry it'd probably be in the 45-46 mpg range (assuming they kept the 4-cylinder). This car is way cleaner than a typical 70's domestic gas guzzler, yet the government wants to ban those too. Instead of a hard deadline that as you said, was made out of thin air, they could do it in stages.
Somebody brought up a chart months ago that personal transportation contributes to most greenhouse gases in this country. I wonder how much those big giant V8 behemoth Escalades, Yukons, Tundras, etc (and their 15 mpg real world driving) contribute to that percentage. Those are the culprit, not a highly efficient Camry or Accord.
06-19-23, 03:08 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
My personal opinion is that the hard government push for EV adoption with what I consider to be arbitrary deadlines is off putting to lots of ICE people. A softer approach and offering great products before imposing a deadline out of the thin blue sky would lead to less resistance.
From the industry side, the EV charging industry knows there's lots of work to do. I guess it's good to have a target, but a goal and an ultimatum are not the same thing and the public proclamations sound more like the latter. The industry does need enthusiastic early adopters. I want people to embrace and enjoy EVs if they choose to do so. No one is forcing anyone to adopt EVs and it's not either or. Come 2035, assuming that deadline sticks, you can still have your ICE and there will still be places to buy fuel. I am guessing there will still be many, but it's a guess.
From the industry side, the EV charging industry knows there's lots of work to do. I guess it's good to have a target, but a goal and an ultimatum are not the same thing and the public proclamations sound more like the latter. The industry does need enthusiastic early adopters. I want people to embrace and enjoy EVs if they choose to do so. No one is forcing anyone to adopt EVs and it's not either or. Come 2035, assuming that deadline sticks, you can still have your ICE and there will still be places to buy fuel. I am guessing there will still be many, but it's a guess.
06-19-23, 03:18 PM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I want people to embrace and enjoy EVs if they choose to do so. No one is forcing anyone to adopt EVs and it's not either or. Come 2035, assuming that deadline sticks, you can still have your ICE and there will still be places to buy fuel. I am guessing there will still be many, but it's a guess.
I hope so cuz I might want one of each.
06-19-23, 03:48 PM
#39
Lexus Champion
100%.
Somebody brought up a chart months ago that personal transportation contributes to most greenhouse gases in this country. I wonder how much those big giant V8 behemoth Escalades, Yukons, Tundras, etc (and their 15 mpg real world driving) contribute to that percentage. Those are the culprit, not a highly efficient Camry or Accord.
Somebody brought up a chart months ago that personal transportation contributes to most greenhouse gases in this country. I wonder how much those big giant V8 behemoth Escalades, Yukons, Tundras, etc (and their 15 mpg real world driving) contribute to that percentage. Those are the culprit, not a highly efficient Camry or Accord.
https://www.edmunds.com/about/press/...delinecom.html
06-19-23, 03:51 PM
#40
Lead Lap
Me too. My AE86 will always be ICE. I am cool with having an EV. I look forward to it. My Civic is only 3 1/2 years old and has 23K miles, so it will be a while. I will look at EVs when it's time to get a new car.
My employer definitely is acutely aware of all of the current issues regarding software, hardware, and grid infrastructure and we as a company are hard after making the non residential charging experience not a pain in the ***. Because of who we are, we face resistance, protests, etc from people, who if they really do care about the environment and zero emissions, they should be glad that it's exactly us who as a company is deeply committed to the EV market.
My employer definitely is acutely aware of all of the current issues regarding software, hardware, and grid infrastructure and we as a company are hard after making the non residential charging experience not a pain in the ***. Because of who we are, we face resistance, protests, etc from people, who if they really do care about the environment and zero emissions, they should be glad that it's exactly us who as a company is deeply committed to the EV market.
06-19-23, 05:16 PM
#41
Ho Motorsports
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Don't talk sense to all these EV owners. They constantly try to say how no maintenance on their cars make their purchase superior to ours. All cars need suspension replacement, brakes, and tires, EV's included. EV owners make you believe that $60 on oil changes per year is "so much on maintenance."
I agree strongly about the last part. It's way too early in the EV era to definitively say that these are lower cost to maintain than a 2002 Camry all the way to 300-400k miles. I used 2002 because that was the first year of the timing chain. Lol still very reliable cars. The batteries on these EV's that go out before 300k miles will cost a ton to replace, meanwhile the engines on Camry's, Accord's, etc can rack up the mileage way above 300k.
I agree strongly about the last part. It's way too early in the EV era to definitively say that these are lower cost to maintain than a 2002 Camry all the way to 300-400k miles. I used 2002 because that was the first year of the timing chain. Lol still very reliable cars. The batteries on these EV's that go out before 300k miles will cost a ton to replace, meanwhile the engines on Camry's, Accord's, etc can rack up the mileage way above 300k.
As for maintenance and cost of ownership, it varies based on the type of ICE vehicle you purchase. Japanese cars definitely have the advantage compared to the German counterparts. The fact remains that you still have to do maintenance either based on miles or years on any ICE vehicle. You can definitely keep your maintenance cost to the minimum if you do them yourself. For example, my Macan requires spark plugs and engine air filters change every 3yrs or 30k miles and PDK fluid change at every 4yrs or 40k miles, that's in addition to oil change, brake fluid, brake pads and rotors. On the other hand, e-tron doesn't have any of those maintenance costs. Of course things such as electronics and suspension (any other items for that matter) can break. Those are not maintenance items. That'll be the cost of ownership.
I won't disagree with you that the batteries can be the X factor. Even though battery technology isn't anywhere close to being perfect, it's also not as bad as you would think. If you like to drive your cars to 200k miles or more, then EV isn't for you.
Last edited by T-Rex06; 06-19-23 at 07:23 PM.
06-19-23, 07:51 PM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
As a working man who doesn't drive many miles, I will be looking at used.
I realize I don't have to worry about a random unlucky & expensive head gasket failure which is usually easier to replace the engine with a donor engine sometimes or an expensive transmission rebuild- due to the car running on electric motors and batteries...
I do worry about the cost to replace the batteries and electric motor rebuild cost.
My hope is there will be a thriving industry for new batteries and electric motors and off she goes for another 100k miles.
That would be cool.
06-19-23, 08:04 PM
#43
Lexus Champion
Yes sir, this is my X factor too.
As a working man who doesn't drive many miles, I will be looking at used.
I realize I don't have to worry about a random unlucky & expensive head gasket failure which is usually easier to replace the engine with a donor engine sometimes or an expensive transmission rebuild- due to the car running on electric motors and batteries...
I do worry about the cost to replace the batteries and electric motor rebuild cost.
My hope is there will be a thriving industry for new batteries and electric motors and off she goes for another 100k miles.
That would be cool.
As a working man who doesn't drive many miles, I will be looking at used.
I realize I don't have to worry about a random unlucky & expensive head gasket failure which is usually easier to replace the engine with a donor engine sometimes or an expensive transmission rebuild- due to the car running on electric motors and batteries...
I do worry about the cost to replace the batteries and electric motor rebuild cost.
My hope is there will be a thriving industry for new batteries and electric motors and off she goes for another 100k miles.
That would be cool.
By the time the warranty is up on my Model Y, I'll either be moving on to my next car, or I'll dead
. Also there are several companies that are positioning themselves to sell replacement battery packs. And in 10 years when warranties expire, the cost of batteries will have gone way down. Even Toyota is claiming that they will have a cheaper battery pack by 2026.Battery tech is continually evolving. Tesla already has a cheaper battery pack they are putting in the Model 3 and Model Y base (4680 Lithium Iron battery pack), so battery packs will get cheaper over time, like everything else does
Last edited by AMIRZA786; 06-19-23 at 08:09 PM.
06-24-23, 03:05 PM
#44
Don't talk sense to all these EV owners. They constantly try to say how no maintenance on their cars make their purchase superior to ours. All cars need suspension replacement, brakes, and tires, EV's included. EV owners make you believe that $60 on oil changes per year is "so much on maintenance."
I agree strongly about the last part. It's way too early in the EV era to definitively say that these are lower cost to maintain than a 2002 Camry all the way to 300-400k miles. I used 2002 because that was the first year of the timing chain. Lol still very reliable cars. The batteries on these EV's that go out before 300k miles will cost a ton to replace, meanwhile the engines on Camry's, Accord's, etc can rack up the mileage way above 300k.
I agree strongly about the last part. It's way too early in the EV era to definitively say that these are lower cost to maintain than a 2002 Camry all the way to 300-400k miles. I used 2002 because that was the first year of the timing chain. Lol still very reliable cars. The batteries on these EV's that go out before 300k miles will cost a ton to replace, meanwhile the engines on Camry's, Accord's, etc can rack up the mileage way above 300k.
06-24-23, 03:08 PM
#45
100 percent EV owners I know and talk to don't believe in an ICE ban. Let the market make the decision the same way it did for Blackberry vs iPhone vs Android. Just make good EV's (the way Tesla already does), fix the non Tesla charging infrastructure and let the market worry about it