My god, you're full of yourself. And other things. The two cars were the same size from the moment they were built the same size. It's not a fact you invented by transcribing it into a chart.

Also, Newsflash: The guy who said he'd buy a U-Haul because it won in the two criteria you've been hyping was using... wait for it... sarcasm.

Let's talk about your assertion that you'd choose an Accord over an ES if shopping today. That statement was eloquently answered by losiglow's story about his stepfather shopping Honda vs. Hyundai/Kia. But there's another rebuttal too, from your own mouth: You loudly claimed yourself in a long series of posts on this board that subjective feel things like the sound of the door slamming are critically important to a quality car experience. (Remember those loving photos of extra tar squares? Sure you do.) That is, until you decided to troll the ES board by pretending that they aren't, so you could argue the ES is inferior to a car with visibly cheaper everything everywhere. It's not clear to me how this isn't just an attention wh**** engaging in pathetic "Look at me" trolling, several months after he sold the car that's the sole topic of the forum.

Beyond that, if the ES is vastly inferior to a dissimilar electric SUV as we've heard, and also significantly inferior to a cheaper midsize sedan as we've heard, I'd have to think it's so flawed that there are undoubtedly other cars that have long been superior to it as well. That makes me think that anyone who realizes this profound truth and yet spent over $40,000 on that car must have some flaws in his own judgment in the first place. Why must we hear again and again from such a person, while never hearing a shred of reflection or self-criticism on their obvious mistake? Why, only a troubled individual would act and then talk like that. Not the kind whose posts I'd want to read over and over and over again.

 

Quick note about that 6.5:

While you'll be surprised to hear that I knew about that rating even before you enlightened me, I wouldn't take it too too seriously. The Toyota Avalon was reported on this board to be nearly identical under the skin to the ES (in a very nuanced analysis of the body in white, too sophisticated for me to understand). Yet despite this extreme similarity, C/D rated the Avalon 8.0 out of 10 while rating the similar but better-appointed ES as 6.5.

This suggests to me that C/D's ratings figure in subjective factors, like their expectations for the car and their opinion on which class it should be compared to. And that Accord, while a good car in its class, is getting much more ambivalent reviews from some other sources than the usual gushing from C/D, a publication that's listed it as a 10 Best winner more than 20 years in a row.

There's a Honda lifer employee who was a recurring poster for a long time on a VW board. He had access to product failure data, and he'd let slip with a series of interesting revelations about various Honda products and their problems. One of those revelations was that Honda products designed and built in Swindon, England often were dogs. And one of those vehicles was the '08-13 Accord, which fell short of other Accord generations in quality, braking and quietness. Yet C/D gave that one 10 Best honors, too. I respect C/D and I subscribe to it, but I worship no man.

 

No one here cares about your all mighty Tesla ownership on this forum. I had 13 service visits with my 2018 P100D Tesla in ~20,000 km. In that same distance in my ES I had zero service visits (aside from one oil change). Zero defects. Zero refill hassle. Zero company BS lies. Zero phantom braking.

 

Additionally, it is crucial to highlight that the individual in question had not one, but two ESs, which raises further questions about their decision-making--just sayin'!

I got receipts!

Quote from said individual, "Funny you say that, Both my 2021 ESes...."

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...l#post11488539

 

Got a link to where Car and Driver actually rates a 2023 ES300h - repeat specifically the ES300h?

The specs for the ES model Car and Driver 2023 ratings as stated in the articles I could find are:

2021 Lexus ES250 AWD F-Sport

Is that really a characteristic of high quality, meaningful review by "top men" reviewers or merely a phone in hack job by bozos too lazy to change the dates from previous years' hack reviews.

To further demonstrate what a hack job their ES reviews are, this sentence
has been in every Car and Driver ES review since 2020.

Not only has an ES350h trim never existed in the 7th generation ES offerings, but basing the whole ES model line rating upon a model type (i.e., ES250 AWD) with more of less than stellar aspects to it than other model types raises the question of whether or not there's any expertise at all in the Car and Driver "expert" reviews.

P.S. I'm not making an comparison argument between the ES and some other manufacturer's offering; just that using Car and Driver reviews for such a comparison is dubious at best.

 

I would lock this thread and ban this guy.

 

Car and Driver has the now standard auto media bias against anything that isn't their definition of sporty, believing we all want and need 3.0 sec 0-60 and stiff suspensions for "canyon carving". It's nonsense. They also still clutch dearly to the old mantra of "an ES is just a glorified Camry" schtick, something some posters in here do as well. To some the undersign body structure similarities on shared platforms - now totally the norm in the global auto industry - is unimportant in some bands (say, MB or BMW) or forever damning as for Lexus. They're entitled to their opinion but that doesn't make them correct.

 

C/D's original magazine review of the 2019 ES 350 was actually pretty positive except for the touchpad. They praised its ride/handling compromise as "comfortable, yet it no longer drives like a sofa," and concluded it was "cohesive and luxurious, and now a fetching thing to look at." The website's listings rated it only 6.5, but repeated most of the positive comments. The negative turn came after they tested the ES 250 AWD, which they condemned for lacking the luxurious feel and sound of the ES 350 and being a Camry at twice the price. It was then that the Camry putdowns crept into the website's model descriptions as well, even though the 6.5 number remained unchanged.

Exactly as you suggest, C/D's stated bias is in favor of involving drivers' cars. And that's fine with me; I simply factor it into my reactions to whatever they say. They have their place in the automotive universe just as Consumer Reports does, and I subscribe to both. It's just unwise, as you suggest, to treat their number as any more authoritative than Consumer Reports' much more favorable 82. (BTW, CR also made essentially no changes to their critical remarks about the ES and LS's confusing infotainment even after the cars made the changeover to easier-to-use touchscreens.)

 

There’s two ways to have the tallest building in town. The first is to have the tallest building, you chose the second method and not even in your own town. You might ask yourself why.

 

I called it. Turns out the Accord scores top marks in the new updated side test. Additionally, Accord scores good in the new updated moderate overlap test. I hope the new ES can do as well as the Accord.

 

World first kind of information!!

 

Surprisingly, cars that just came out are engineered to meet new standards, while cars engineered five years ago are not!

A word about the post referenced here, made by the thread's OP:

In this thread alone, he trashes the ES as obsolete, potentially unsafe and riddled with numerous fit/finish defects. He also boasts that he enlightened us all on what size the Honda Accord is, and that he sagely predicted a new car would meet new car safety standards.

This poster's permanent avatar is a boast that he prefers another brand over the car that's the entire subject of this forum, which he's ashamed that he used to own two of. This is a matter to be resolved between him and his therapist, not all over our faces like so much automotive bukkake. When I respond to owners of other makes, I try to treat them with normal human respect. That cuts both ways; ES owners like me don't come to this site just to hear serial putdowns from a rival brand's fanboi.

Moderators, how much more weekly trolling against our cars are we all expected to tolerate on our own home board, all just so one ex-owner can get his neurotic tendencies massaged at our expense?

 

Very well said.

 

The "Ignore" feature can be your friend in a case like this.

 

Bukkake! Egads! You are certainly a colorful writer! Haven’t seen that that one used in a millennium! 😂😂😂