Most of data from the sheet are wrong.
Braking distance - 178 feet;
Weight - 3682 lbs;
Tank size - 13,2 gallons etc


The main reason why we have this and other threads is only to make the ES look bad, and that comes from somebody that says that the Model Y seats are the best seats in the world.

 

And he was likely to be the first in the world to say it! Very cutting edge information as always.

 

We have a 2023 ES300h (with premium package, 12.3 in navigation and a few other options) and 2022 Honda Accord Touring 2.0T. As I understand the 2023 Accord is quieter, but otherwise similar to the 2022. I’ll give my impressions based upon my 2022 Accord Touring (and add in any new features that I know in the 2023). I think using the EX-L is not the right comparison - as I haven’t really ever seen too many truly base ES300h. They all seem to have the premium package which compares better to the Accord Touring. That still makes the accord about 8K less (39K vs 47K).

Safety: they seem to have the same generation of safety features and all the same ones - so there is really good parity here. I think that the Lane Keep Assist works better in the Accord as well as the Smart Cruise / Lane centering (e.g. it remembers the smart cruise difference and does a better job of keeping in the center of the lane). The ES does offer the 360 degree backup camera which is not available on any Accord. Otherwise, I haven’t seen too many differences in the way the safety feature work. The Accord touring has HUD as standard.

Interior: Nothing wrong with the Honda interior. It’s fake wood looks similar to the stupid real black wood that we have. But overall, ES is nicer materials and general solidness as well as things little things like the center console opening both sides, although base ES has nuluxe compared to the Accord’s leather (so far we don’t have complaints about the nuluxe). From pictures I’ve seen of the 2023 - this still applies. The back seat of the Accord is absolutely bigger than the ES per my growing 16 year old son (and the measurements). The ventilated seats are much better on the premium ES (you can really feel the air). The heated steering wheel (and the automatic controls that keep it at the perfect temperature) on the ES is great (Accord has the steering wheel as a dealer installed option). Finally the Accord Touring does have heated rear seat while the ES doesn’t even have that as an option (my kids complained about that one as our old Avalon and the Accord have them). I really like the auto telescoping steering wheel on the premium ES which is not on the Accord.

Sounds/Infotainment: The 2022 Accord is good, but the 2023 Accord has a new google infotainment w 12.3 in screen. I think they seem to be fairly equal now. Sound quality is slightly better in my 2022 Accord Touring than the base ES sound and the 2023 Accord Touring is supposed to have even better sound than the 2022. (Note: the 2023 ES with 12.3 is definitely better than the 2022 Honda system). The 2023 Accord does not have SiriusXM radio.

Ride: The ES is much quieter and smoother than the 2022 Accord. I read that the 2023 Accord is quieter, but haven’t tested it. My wife also asked last time we were in the Accord if it was always this bumpy.

Drivetrain: I have driven Honda hybrids before, and the 2023 is their latest generation. I believe the drive feels relatively the same and both have an integrated power split device / transmission (similar but not the same design). I would pick the proven, reliable Toyota hybrid system any day over the Honda system, especially for the 2023 model year where it is a new design from Honda.

Exterior: I think the 2023 Accord looks like a ford taurus. I think the ES looks great - especially the rear of the ES 300h with the spoiler.

Trunk: The Accord has a much bigger trunk. However, the Accord hybrid does not have a spare tire, but has a can of fix a flat (the spare tire compartment is where they put the hybrid battery - non hybrid models have a spare), whereas the the ES has a spare. We have the auto/kick to open / close trunk option on the ES - which we absolutely love - that is not available on the Accord.

It’s hard to value all of these features and none of the trim levels line out exactly (e.g. an Accord Touring has more standard options than a base ESh), but trying to put them apples to apples as I value the features, you pay about $4-5k more for the Lexus name.

 

Lexus does make a version of the Camry/Avalon, it's the ES.

GS was not a version of the Camry nor related to one. GS was on a Lexus-only RWD platform. ES is based on the FWD Camry/Avalon platform.

 

I don't come to the ES forum often but when I do, I see you talking about the Model Y. You seem to have a hang up about the Model Y. Strange. I have a Model Y and they're not the best seats in the world btw. They're comfy but don't hold you in place the best under hard cornering and I think there are other seats that are better for long distance driving, but overall they're fine.

 

Yes one starts with a B and the other with a C. Very close. Silly thread. While I don't drive hybrids, I did rent an Accord 1.5t for a week last year I think it was. Fine car but it felt nothing like a Lexus inside nor driving.

 

That is some super sleuthing there. I am sure all of us have been in the dark on a car that has had basically the same interior dimensions since 2018.

 

Another world first! We are in great debt to him.

 

That is the reason why you are not aware of the situation.

 

Actually, the 2024Acura TLX is an excellent car. I could consider replacing my 2021 ES with it if the new Gen ES doesn’t please me.

 

I originally thought the accord was no bigger than a bread box, but have since learned the midsize accord is about the same size as the midsize ES. Hiding in plain sight!

Thats some pretty brave reporting, I bet Big Auto sent their goons after him for uncovering this bombshell. He was probably banned for life from purchasing gasoline, which explains the Tesla.

 

Not a really good analogy. I like the ES and it is definitely a step up from a fully equipped Accord or Camry, but at the same time, it is not some sort of astronomic step up. I would put the base ES (which is where this thread started) closer to the Accord Touring then I would to say a similarly equipped Audi A6 or Mercedes E class. I can afford nicer cars than a base/premium pkg ES (and still wondering if we should have gotten an ES Ultra Luxury - which I do think is quite a step up from an Accord Touring - as it better be for the 15K+ more).

I am sure I have different needs and outlook than a lot of others here - I’ve got 2 teenagers who have to sit in the back, I wanted a nice, big, comfortable, good gas mileage car and I didn’t want an SUV. The ES 300h replaced a 2014 Avalon Hybrid limited (which at the time we looked at a Camry and a base ES 300h - the Avalon was practically as nice as the ES, was the same size/platform (I think) and had all the features at a better price). This time around it was after comparing it the Accord Touring, Acura TLX and fully equipped Camry XLE/XSE - trying to find that nice, big, comfortable, good mpg, etc. and I really didn’t want to go into the Audi A6/BMW 5 or higher (value is a factor, you have to go much higher in cost to get big or hybrid in those, and reliability). Of course reasons for not wanting to spend more on a car than needed are quickly demonstrated when you have teenagers: the first week of having the car, my 16 year old both sat in the front seat and scratched up the panel with his shoes (he likes to cross his legs and his shoe scraped the panel) and then the next week spills an entire milkshake on the floor in the backseat. Someday they will be out of the house .

Also not very apples to apples - a 1.5T version is pretty basic, no leather, missing a lot of the comfort, performance and safety features of an Accord Touring.

 

Yes, Honda make capacious cars!
They have so many cubic feet of volume.
Even their Civic and CR-V are capacious too.
The Accords are actually more capacious than Lexus ES!
Back in the old days, the ES was actually a smaller, sportier, but more upmarket variant of the Camry.

 

Back in the old days, the ES was a lower roofline, frameless window called hardtop, with sportier suspension, and more upmarket.
Hence, the Camry was always more capacious than its Lexus ES sibling below.
By 2001, the 4th generation ES was no longer a lowered roofline frameless window hardtop with sportier suspension.
By 2013, the 6th generation ES rode on a longer wheelbase, but - other factors like height, ventilated seats and size of seat squab and thickness of backrests - made ES still less capacious than Camry.

NB
The Camry dates below are JDM Japanese Domestic Market dates; in the old days, US production was delayed by about a year.

The Camry and ES evolved from a 4-year model cycle, to a 5-year model cycle, and now a 6-year model cycle - but not the 7-year model cycle commonly used by the IS, GS, LS and the German trio of Benz, BMW and Audi.















1986-90 Toyota Camry



1988-92 Lexus ES250 "Hardtop"




1990-94 Toyota Camry


1992-96 Lexus ES300 "Hardtop"




1996-01 Toyota Camry


1996-01 Lexus ES300 "Hardtop"

 

I've owned three Honda Accords - 1993, 1999, 2006. Loved all three of them. Drove them all past 200K miles (almost 300K on the 1999) Then I went to Acura - 2006 TL, 2012 TL. Then to a '17 ESh and now a '22 ESh.

I drove my step-fathers 2019 Accord EX V6 the other day. One word - Nope.

It's not a bad car. And it reminded me how much I miss the high-strung Honda J-series V6 that I had in my TL's. But the fit and finish, ride quality and noise were inferior. I've been spoiled by the ES and can't go back.

I could definitely see myself interested in a Type-S TLX in the future. But I haven't test driven one and have been out of the Acura scene for a while so it would still be up in the air.