AllinCLE

A couple of weeks ago I took our 18 Q5 in for it's 40,000mi service, and they ended up needing to keep the car longer than expected. At first they had given me another Q5, but because I asked, they let me trade loaners for a new A6 (I had a couple long trips for work, and asked very nicely for something more comfortable). Side note: kudos to Cascade Audi service for taking care of me!

Here are my thoughts comparing the new A6 to my 2019 ES 350 Ultra Luxury

• The loaner was a pretty well loaded, a Prestige trim with sport package and optioned up to just over $73K.
• The 3.0T is a gem of an engine, gobs power everywhere in the rev range. It's a very fast sedan, a rocket in a straight line. Acceleration is effortless.
• The Audi's 7 speed isn't quite as buttery smooth as Lexus' transmission but I wouldn't object to it in my car. It probably is capable of faster shifts, keeping with the A6's more sporty nature. There was one weird hitch when accelerating slowly in traffic, not sure if it was the transmission or just a breath of turbo lag. I hate to say lag, because the car didn't struggle, it's really just a non-linear response at low rpm, moderate throttle.
• Superior ride-handling balance, excellent chassis tuning. The A6 drives significantly sportier, yet retains excellent ride quality. A6 had better body control, but you do feel impacts from broken pavement more than in my ES.
• Interestingly, textured roads are LOUD in both cars...drown out your conversation loud.
• I find the seats in my UL ES to be far more comfortable, hands down. In fact, I think the ES felt roomier, and more comfortable overall too. The A6 had the standard seats (I think upgraded seats are also available), they were disappointing. The biggest problem was the short cushion, I really missed the extending cushion from my car.
• Despite costing 20K less, I think my UL ES interior was better overall. I have the semi aniline leather in my ES, and I think it's for sure nicer than the A6's leather. Everything my ES is plusher, more soft touch and padded, upholstered surfaces where the Audi used lots more plastic. Even the "soft" plastics on the Audi aren't very soft.
• Audi's open-pore Ash wood is really cool, and is more unique than the "linear mocha" wood I have. They should have put it across the dash instead of the horrid strip of piano black plastic. It's not even an option to get rid of it that stupid plastic! It creates bad reflections with the sun behind you and could almost be a deal breaker for me.
• I strongly dislike the new infotainment layout Audi is rolling out starting with the A6. It's ALL touchscreens and to me wasn't intuitive at all. I'm 31, so yes I eventually figured out how to do everything I wanted, but a lot of unnecessary work. At least in the Lexus all I had to get used to is the awkward track pad. It had two screens on the center stack, and neither was super responsive; you had to push hard as if it was a button which was distracting.
• Heads up display in the A6 completely disappeared with my polarized sun glasses, which was annoying. The HUD in my ES gets significantly dimmer, but you can still see it.
• I had to turn on the seat cooler myself LIKE A PEASANT! LOL. Not a legit complaint, more an observation on the unexpected convenience of the comfort concierge in my Lexus. It weirded me out initially, and I'm surprised to have noticed not having it.
• Over roughly 750 miles of high speed, long distance cruising, the A6 returned mpg's in high 30's. Impressive, I did not expect that at all. I've gotten better mileage on highway trips in my ES, but in fairness, I wasn't driving as fast as I was on this trip.

It was definitely the nicest (and pricey-est) loaner car I've had any dealership give me yet, and I enjoyed it for the 4 days I had it. And I'm glad I got to experience the A6. While I appreciate it for what it is, I am relieved to say that I like my ES better...even if it is slower and less somewhat less prestigious.

If you'd like to know anything more specific, I'll see if I can help!

Freds430

Everyone has different criteria in their selection of cars. Personally I would not pay more more for a car that is less dependable and cost more to maintain. I like the looks both interior and exterior of most of the Lexus's. Their prices for a luxury vehicle IMO are very reasonable. I am very left brain when it comes to cars. Had two German brand autos in the past and were horrible regarding dependability. What brought me to Lexus 12 years ago was their dependability and low maintenance cost. Lexus is the third least to maintain of 30 manufacturers behind Toyota and Scion their cousins. Audi is the 26th least expensive. In two years of driving 30,000 miles I will spend $400 each to maintain our ES or RX. This is at the Lexus or Toyota dealer. Friend at the gym with an Audi S5 just replaced her rear brakes pads at a cost of $1,500. Lexus has been #1 in dependability for an incredible 8 year run. Audi is 8th. I will admit Audi, Porsche and BMW have improved over the last couple of years in this department. Love my Lexus's but just waiting for them to come out with a plug-in hybrid or EV.

AllinCLE

My apologies for not being clear. I am not shopping for either car. About a month ago, I bought a 2019 ES 350. We also own a 2018 Audi Q5 (which my partner primarily drives) that I took in for scheduled maintenance and is how I ended up with the A6 as a loaner car. To me, it's fun to compare the two, both the ES and A6 are freshly redesigned midsize luxury sedans with distinct personalities.

FWIW, I have no qualms about owning either brand. Audi and Lexus both make great vehicles. It's 2019, and all cars today are exponentially more reliable than they were even 10-15 years ago. I do take the bottom dollar, low-cost-bidder approach to buying other things, but not with my cars. In my mind, that doesn't mesh with purchasing a luxury car, which by definition is more costly than basic transportation needs to be (ie. a luxury). Maintaining my nice new car is just what you do to keep it nice. Like you said, to each their own.

skim290x

What tires does your Lexus ES have?

AllinCLE

Bridgestone Turanza EL 440

skim290x

Hmm. According to some other users, people with ES 350 UL with Michelin Premier A/S tires say that their tires are way better than the bridgestones. If you do end up getting new tires, I suggest that or the CrossClimate +.

AllinCLE

Interesting. Almost 2,000 miles in and so far I have no real complaints about these Bridgestone tires. In general, I think Michelin makes the best tires, except for their X-Ice Xi3 winter tires. I just finished wearing out a set of the Xi-3 tires this past winter before I bought the ES350, and I don't think they were nearly as good in winter weather as the Blizzak WS80's that they replaced. Those Blizzaks were magical on ice and hard, packed snow.

This A6 had Pirelli tires, I forget the model. I've had 3 sets of Pirelli tires in the last 10 years, 2 of the 3 had treadwear problems and were extremely loud. I'd be very hesitant to spend my own cash choosing Pirelli's again any time soon. If they came on a car I wanted I'd probably just plan on replacing them sooner rather than later.

lesz

That is curious because, here on CL, there have been a very large number of people who have posted saying that, when they had to replace the tires on their Generation 6 ES cars, they chose the Pirelli Centerato P7 Plus tires, and their reviews have been quite positive.

Consistently, the reviews for the Bridgestone Turanza tires that have come from the factory on many ES cars have consistently gotten very negative reviews regarding tire noise, tread life, and ride quality. The Michelin MXV4 and MMX4 tires that have come from the factory on many other ES cars have gotten very consistent positive reviews, and many who have bought the Pirelli Centerato P7 tires have reported that they are just as good as the Michelin tires with regard to noise and ride quality, but they are less expensive, and they have better tread life.

SW17LS

A6 is a significant step up from the ES. I question the "liking the ES better" from an objective viewpoint lol. I have a hard time anybody objective who would drive a loaded up A6 would prefer a UL ES350 to it. A6 is just completely on another level.



Depends on the model. Audi uses the Cinturato P7, thats the OEM version of the Cinturato P7 Plus which I have on my LS and have had several sets of, they're excellent and extremely quiet tires.

mikemu30

Audi is now rolling out the new A6 with a 2.0l turbo as well.

AllinCLE

To be fair, I haven't owned a set of Centerato P7 tires. They may very well live up to their hype.

The problem Pirelli's I had were the PZero Nero UHP all seasons that came on a Mustang GT I bought in 2014. I eeked 15,000mi out of them, but really they were shot around 12,000mi. Then we had an issue with premature wear on the Pirelli Scorpio Verde tires that came on the 2018 Q5. The service manager straight up told us not to buy these as the replacement, and recommended the Michelin equivalent or Vredstein (a European brand). I think we got maybe 28,000mi out of those. Then again, I was happy with the same tires previously so who knows.

AllinCLE

Just giving my honest opinion, I looked at them both when I was shopping. This was a lot more time behind the wheel than a test drive, and I got to know the car. I found the A6 to be superior dynamically in every way; acceleration, handling, power train, chassis tuning. It is head a shoulders, a more exciting and enjoyable car to drive fast.

At the same time, the ES is purpose built for quiet comfort, which it excels at. I think my ES has a better, more comfortable interior overall. The ES holds it's own quite well inside versus the A6. The leather was softer and smoother, the infotainment with one giant screen name more sense to me than the two. The seats are unquestionably better. I was cursing the A6 seats after a 700mi day of driving. Most materials feel more luxurious too, more detailing.

I didn't mention the stereo! The Bang and Olufsen system is a thing of beauty. To my ear, it sounds incredible and beats out the Mark Levinson, which is also excellent in it's own right.

If I could order A6's 3.0T powertrain with the rest of the ES, I'd buy that car over either one of these.

95bat

You're not the only one!

If Lexus ever makes an ES with more power (400+ I'd hope), AWD, and keeps it under $70k, I'd trade in my car in a heartbeat.

mikemu30

Isn't the top end MSRP for both 50% higher on the A6 compared to the ES? How is this a fair comparison.

oldcajun

[QUOTE=SW17LS;10556178]A6 is a significant step up from the ES. I question the "liking the ES better" from an objective viewpoint lol. I have a hard time anybody objective who would drive a loaded up A6 would prefer a UL ES350 to it. A6 is just completely on another level./QUOTE]

You might be surprised. One of our neighbors is a long time Mercedes owner who was just amazed at the room, quiet, soft ride, and nice leather in my ES. Her car is an E300 and she doesn't know (or care) that it is RWD, or turbocharged, or any of the other "car guy" things we care about. I don't have any data, but I suspect that half or more of the Mercedes and Audi buyers are like her.