8th generation ES!
Pole Position
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 1,358
From: IL
It will be interesting to see how it performs on the initial sales report once it reaches US dealerships. I won’t give a definitive NO, but based on the current specifications and design, it’s certainly NOT on my list.
Likewise, my '23 300h will likely be my last ES, given the direction of the current generation’s styling and interior; unless I can move up to an LS500 or LC500, assuming they don’t end up like the ES by then.
I prefer sedans over SUVs, and a fully electric vehicle isn’t currently cost-effective due to the power costs in my area. So, this will likely be my last Lexus as well.
Likewise, my '23 300h will likely be my last ES, given the direction of the current generation’s styling and interior; unless I can move up to an LS500 or LC500, assuming they don’t end up like the ES by then.
I prefer sedans over SUVs, and a fully electric vehicle isn’t currently cost-effective due to the power costs in my area. So, this will likely be my last Lexus as well.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,295
Likes: 1,589
From: SE PA
I:m hoping that my 2019 lasts and that it will be my last car on this earth. If necessary I'd buy another ICE car, pre-owned if necessary, but no pure electric that requires plug-in. Seems that hybrids are the go to currently.
I have to say that I'm surprised that Lexus won't give buyers a choice between ICE, hybrid, and EV. Guess they know a lot more than me...
I have to say that I'm surprised that Lexus won't give buyers a choice between ICE, hybrid, and EV. Guess they know a lot more than me...
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 260
Likes: 107
Agree with all this. Have a 300h. Like the hybrid. The plug-in is a bit different and how I understand it, is you can go like 50 miles pure EV and then it switches to gas So on longer drives you are basically with an ICE car. The new ES hybrid would be nice, but the design is not attractive to me and it is just too big. Much bigger than my current car. The IS will now come in a hybrid version. Have to see if that one is too small. Otherwise, will go to another brand.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 1,358
From: IL
Racer
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,886
Likes: 456
From: North Carolina
Ok thanks I guess the grill is the same. I just saw 1 picture saying 350h. Wonder the shape of radiator and condenser if the grill towards bottom.
Last edited by alextv; Jun 6, 2025 at 03:22 PM.
Pit Crew
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 195
Likes: 217
From: SC
That's my understanding anyway. If I'm wrong about this, somebody please correct me.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,556
Likes: 3,397
From: NJ
I think the way it works is that for the first 50 miles (or whatever it might be) it is purely EV, but after that it switches to a hybrid engine, not a pure ICE. In other words, after the first 50, you'll still be getting the mileage you get with your current ES300h, not the mileage you'd get with a current ES350.
That's my understanding anyway. If I'm wrong about this, somebody please correct me.
That's my understanding anyway. If I'm wrong about this, somebody please correct me.
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 284
Likes: 109
From: California
Assuming the 2024 NX is representative of Lexus plug-ins, once that battery is discharged, a plug-in hybrid operates as a standard hybrid. However, it is not as efficient as the standard hybrid, as you're giving away around three miles per gallon compared to the NX 350h.
- NX 350h – 41 mpg city, 37 mpg highway, 39 mpg combined
- NX 450h+ – 37 miles EV-only range, then 38 mpg city, 33 mpg highway, 36 mpg combined
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 624
From: Kentucky
This is a great, multi-faceted discussion that gets to the core of what's happening with the ES and Lexus as a whole. Here's my take on the key themes:
- On the ES Identity: "Boring" is the Point. @dougdangger and others hit the nail on the head. The ES has dominated its segment not by trying to be a German sport sedan, but by being an unapologetically comfortable, quiet, and reliable luxury car. Criticizing it for lacking "road feel" is like critiquing a luxury Swiss watch for not having a stopwatch function. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the product's core mission and the reason its loyal customer base exists.
- On Platform & Design: A Story of Compromise. The points from @E46CT, @DavidZ, and others about shared platforms are the most critical issue here. Designing one chassis for both traditional powertrains and a full BEV setup is a strategy that rarely produces a class-leading vehicle in either category. It results in an awkward, uninspired detour into what I can only call aesthetic no-man's-land. As savvy buyers, it's easy to see the truth: you're either getting a half-baked EV or a gas car lugging around the architectural compromises for a battery it doesn't have. It’s a glaring admission that the designers either lost their nerve or decided to actively vandalize the car's very heritage.
- On Brand Direction: The China Factor & Alienating the Base. This point is particularly relevant to me. As someone who personally drove both a 2019 and a 2022 ES, I was squarely in the target demographic. However, the brand's recent direction and design choices only serve to validate my decision to move on—a move that looks smarter with every new reveal. That path first led me to a deal on an EQS 450, and then ultimately to my current Mercedes EQS 580 sedan when an amazing deal presented a value proposition the new ES simply couldn't match.
So, when I see the comments from other long-time owners feeling left behind, it resonates deeply. @Jersey5974 brought up the crucial context, and as I understand it, this new model was developed in collaboration with Chinese firms like Guangdong and BYD and announced at a press event only in China. We don't warm to this car because this car was not meant for us. We are an afterthought. In chasing a new demographic overseas, Lexus appears to be alienating the very loyal customer base that built its reputation in North America.
Pit Crew
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 195
Likes: 217
From: SC
Assuming the 2024 NX is representative of Lexus plug-ins, once that battery is discharged, a plug-in hybrid operates as a standard hybrid. However, it is not as efficient as the standard hybrid, as you're giving away around three miles per gallon compared to the NX 350h.
- NX 350h – 41 mpg city, 37 mpg highway, 39 mpg combined
- NX 450h+ – 37 miles EV-only range, then 38 mpg city, 33 mpg highway, 36 mpg combined
Pole Position
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 1,358
From: IL
So, when I see the comments from other long-time owners feeling left behind, it resonates deeply. @Jersey5974 brought up the crucial context, and as I understand it, this new model was developed in collaboration with Chinese firms like Guangdong and BYD and announced at a press event only in China. We don't warm to this car because this car was not meant for us. We are an afterthought. In chasing a new demographic overseas, Lexus appears to be alienating the very loyal customer base that built its reputation in North America.
Bottom line: Where its predecessors moved with stately elegance and a quiet, lethal allure, that legacy has now been unceremoniously erased. The ES became a segment leader by knowing exactly what it was. This new version isn't progress; it's a monument to a squandered opportunity. And to think, we were all worried about the engine!
Bottom line: Where its predecessors moved with stately elegance and a quiet, lethal allure, that legacy has now been unceremoniously erased. The ES became a segment leader by knowing exactly what it was. This new version isn't progress; it's a monument to a squandered opportunity. And to think, we were all worried about the engine!
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,295
Likes: 1,589
From: SE PA
This is a great, multi-faceted discussion that gets to the core of what's happening with the ES and Lexus as a whole. Here's my take on the key themes:
- On the ES Identity: "Boring" is the Point. @dougdangger and others hit the nail on the head. The ES has dominated its segment not by trying to be a German sport sedan, but by being an unapologetically comfortable, quiet, and reliable luxury car. Criticizing it for lacking "road feel" is like critiquing a luxury Swiss watch for not having a stopwatch function. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the product's core mission and the reason its loyal customer base exists.
- On Platform & Design: A Story of Compromise. The points from @E46CT, @DavidZ, and others about shared platforms are the most critical issue here. Designing one chassis for both traditional powertrains and a full BEV setup is a strategy that rarely produces a class-leading vehicle in either category. It results in an awkward, uninspired detour into what I can only call aesthetic no-man's-land. As savvy buyers, it's easy to see the truth: you're either getting a half-baked EV or a gas car lugging around the architectural compromises for a battery it doesn't have. It’s a glaring admission that the designers either lost their nerve or decided to actively vandalize the car's very heritage.
- On Brand Direction: The China Factor & Alienating the Base. This point is particularly relevant to me. As someone who personally drove both a 2019 and a 2022 ES, I was squarely in the target demographic. However, the brand's recent direction and design choices only serve to validate my decision to move on—a move that looks smarter with every new reveal. That path first led me to a deal on an EQS 450, and then ultimately to my current Mercedes EQS 580 sedan when an amazing deal presented a value proposition the new ES simply couldn't match.
So, when I see the comments from other long-time owners feeling left behind, it resonates deeply. @Jersey5974 brought up the crucial context, and as I understand it, this new model was developed in collaboration with Chinese firms like Guangdong and BYD and announced at a press event only in China. We don't warm to this car because this car was not meant for us. We are an afterthought. In chasing a new demographic overseas, Lexus appears to be alienating the very loyal customer base that built its reputation in North America.
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 729
Likes: 289
From: MA
This is a great, multi-faceted discussion that gets to the core of what's happening with the ES and Lexus as a whole. Here's my take on the key themes:
So, when I see the comments from other long-time owners feeling left behind, it resonates deeply. @Jersey5974 brought up the crucial context, and as I understand it, this new model was developed in collaboration with Chinese firms like Guangdong and BYD and announced at a press event only in China. We don't warm to this car because this car was not meant for us. We are an afterthought. In chasing a new demographic overseas, Lexus appears to be alienating the very loyal customer base that built its reputation in North America.
Bottom line: Where its predecessors moved with stately elegance and a quiet, lethal allure, that legacy has now been unceremoniously erased. The ES became a segment leader by knowing exactly what it was. This new version isn't progress; it's a monument to a squandered opportunity. And to think, we were all worried about the engine!
So, when I see the comments from other long-time owners feeling left behind, it resonates deeply. @Jersey5974 brought up the crucial context, and as I understand it, this new model was developed in collaboration with Chinese firms like Guangdong and BYD and announced at a press event only in China. We don't warm to this car because this car was not meant for us. We are an afterthought. In chasing a new demographic overseas, Lexus appears to be alienating the very loyal customer base that built its reputation in North America.
Bottom line: Where its predecessors moved with stately elegance and a quiet, lethal allure, that legacy has now been unceremoniously erased. The ES became a segment leader by knowing exactly what it was. This new version isn't progress; it's a monument to a squandered opportunity. And to think, we were all worried about the engine!
Last edited by hotwings; Jun 7, 2025 at 09:13 AM.