Oil change interval
05-09-24, 05:39 AM
#17
It took me a long time to come around to longer drain intervals. But the science is there.
I do 7,500 mile OCIs with tougher 30 weight oils - Mobil 1 High Mileage, or Euro 5w-30s. I have tested the oil after that mileage at laboratories and it was good and could have gone longer, including in higher-performance turbo engines. 7,500 miles on a high-quality synthetic of the right grade and quality is no problem for most engines.
Assuming they are 1) using TGMO (a Mobil product; very good oil) or equivalent, 2) the car is not abused, and 3) the oil has some room for shear (e.g., 30 weight and not 20), 10k would be do-able. Personally, I call it at 7,500 to 8k so I sleep better at night.
I don’t think your dealer has ulterior motives, but it is hard for those of us who are used to being preached to about shorter intervals in the past to come around to this at first. Try this: Run the current fill to six or seven K miles. Send in a sample for analysis ($20). See what the lab says.
I do 7,500 mile OCIs with tougher 30 weight oils - Mobil 1 High Mileage, or Euro 5w-30s. I have tested the oil after that mileage at laboratories and it was good and could have gone longer, including in higher-performance turbo engines. 7,500 miles on a high-quality synthetic of the right grade and quality is no problem for most engines.
Assuming they are 1) using TGMO (a Mobil product; very good oil) or equivalent, 2) the car is not abused, and 3) the oil has some room for shear (e.g., 30 weight and not 20), 10k would be do-able. Personally, I call it at 7,500 to 8k so I sleep better at night.
I don’t think your dealer has ulterior motives, but it is hard for those of us who are used to being preached to about shorter intervals in the past to come around to this at first. Try this: Run the current fill to six or seven K miles. Send in a sample for analysis ($20). See what the lab says.
The science is there? Where?
05-09-24, 07:00 AM
#19
Mobile 1 tests right below Amazon basics for metal on metal protection. There are much better products out there. Use what you want, but don't expect Mobile 1 to do anything special for protection. Any Major brand will do the same work.
If you want a truly superior oil, find some Pensoil Ultra Platinum, or use an Amsoil product. Valvoline uses more additives as well than Mobile 1.
In the end, if you change your oil every 5k miles with a full synthetic oil, you will never have an oil related failure. To try to save $15 by going 7500 miles without testing your oil is a bit ridiculous with a $55000 car.
At least that's the way I see it. I have 7 vehicles and 3 motorcycles I maintain. I have gone very deep down the rabbit hole on oil. I do my changes for about $33 depending on filter cost. I have tested only the motorcycle and Diesel oil. I'm down to 3500 miles on the 14 quart diesel change and 4000 on the big bike. Both well below manufacturer recommendations. The others don't work 1/2 as hard.
As for the manufacturers, they use extended changes to boost their environmental numbers and CAFE standards. They don't give a rats butt about if your car goes 100k or 200k. They are in the business of selling new cars.
If you want a truly superior oil, find some Pensoil Ultra Platinum, or use an Amsoil product. Valvoline uses more additives as well than Mobile 1.
In the end, if you change your oil every 5k miles with a full synthetic oil, you will never have an oil related failure. To try to save $15 by going 7500 miles without testing your oil is a bit ridiculous with a $55000 car.
At least that's the way I see it. I have 7 vehicles and 3 motorcycles I maintain. I have gone very deep down the rabbit hole on oil. I do my changes for about $33 depending on filter cost. I have tested only the motorcycle and Diesel oil. I'm down to 3500 miles on the 14 quart diesel change and 4000 on the big bike. Both well below manufacturer recommendations. The others don't work 1/2 as hard.
As for the manufacturers, they use extended changes to boost their environmental numbers and CAFE standards. They don't give a rats butt about if your car goes 100k or 200k. They are in the business of selling new cars.
Last edited by Pdrhound; 05-09-24 at 07:06 AM.
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autotech13 (05-09-24)
05-09-24, 07:43 AM
#20
I have been thru this with many cars over the years, from the old stuff when filters were optional, oil was strait weight, no additives, loose tolerances, crankcases open to whatever gets in there. The oil argument is never ending, but if you change it frequently enough to keep it from getting dirty, you are taking the #1 step in working toward a long engine life.
I drove strait 6 Jaguars for a long while, no synthetic, all Castrol GTX, and did so on a 3000 mile basis, Ran them all in excess of 150K miles, never used, never leaked, and never had an engine issue, including sludge. In hindsight, I overdid it, and synthetic at 5K intevals would have been as good if not better, at a large savings.
I have been driving Lexus's for about 20 years now, and have never had any oil related issues using a 10K miles/12 month schedule. These engines are really well made and I think you would have to really be negligent to cause an oil related problem.
I use Mobil !, but I do appreciate what I have learned about AMSOL.
I drove strait 6 Jaguars for a long while, no synthetic, all Castrol GTX, and did so on a 3000 mile basis, Ran them all in excess of 150K miles, never used, never leaked, and never had an engine issue, including sludge. In hindsight, I overdid it, and synthetic at 5K intevals would have been as good if not better, at a large savings.
I have been driving Lexus's for about 20 years now, and have never had any oil related issues using a 10K miles/12 month schedule. These engines are really well made and I think you would have to really be negligent to cause an oil related problem.
I use Mobil !, but I do appreciate what I have learned about AMSOL.
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autotech13 (05-09-24)
05-09-24, 10:10 AM
#21
Advanced
This guy put 550k on his Rav4 hybrid (same engine as ES300h). Zero engine-related issues. All this with 20k oil change intervals. Please explain why 10k intervals with the specified oil on this engine is not enough.
https://www.rav4world.com/threads/50...imited.319741/
These cars have been around for more than 10 years now - if there would be any oil related issue with the 10k interval we would all hear about it long time ago.
https://www.rav4world.com/threads/50...imited.319741/
These cars have been around for more than 10 years now - if there would be any oil related issue with the 10k interval we would all hear about it long time ago.
Last edited by NdYAG; 05-09-24 at 10:46 AM.
05-09-24, 04:58 PM
#22
This guy put 550k on his Rav4 hybrid (same engine as ES300h). Zero engine-related issues. All this with 20k oil change intervals. Please explain why 10k intervals with the specified oil on this engine is not enough.
https://www.rav4world.com/threads/50...imited.319741/
These cars have been around for more than 10 years now - if there would be any oil related issue with the 10k interval we would all hear about it long time ago.
https://www.rav4world.com/threads/50...imited.319741/
These cars have been around for more than 10 years now - if there would be any oil related issue with the 10k interval we would all hear about it long time ago.
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ESh (05-10-24)
05-12-24, 01:05 AM
#23
Oil is cheap. Engines are not. I use Pennzoil Platinum and I change it every 5000 miles. For me, that equates to once in the Spring and once in the Fall even if I haven't reached that mileage threshold.
Winter driving is harder on oil than Summer driving (unless you live in Death Valley). There's sheering that happens with the oil itself, not to mention your engine in general with poorer oil flow, as well as moisture trapping that can occur with low-mileage trips in the winter when engines don't reach temperatures sufficient enough to flash it all off adequately.
Highway driving is much friendlier to oil life.
Using a quality oil filter at every OCI is just as important as the oil itself. Some people have argued that changing the oil filter is more important than the oil. Debatable, but I always do both at once. YMMV.
I'd say that if you do a lot of highway driving, a 7500 or 10k OCI could be right for you. But comparing two oil changes at 20k miles compared to 4 with a 5000 mile OCI is a $70 difference in oil changes over 20,000 miles. During that time you will have spent (using highly optimistic figures) you will have spent well over $2000 in gas. Just food for thought.
Winter driving is harder on oil than Summer driving (unless you live in Death Valley). There's sheering that happens with the oil itself, not to mention your engine in general with poorer oil flow, as well as moisture trapping that can occur with low-mileage trips in the winter when engines don't reach temperatures sufficient enough to flash it all off adequately.
Highway driving is much friendlier to oil life.
Using a quality oil filter at every OCI is just as important as the oil itself. Some people have argued that changing the oil filter is more important than the oil. Debatable, but I always do both at once. YMMV.
I'd say that if you do a lot of highway driving, a 7500 or 10k OCI could be right for you. But comparing two oil changes at 20k miles compared to 4 with a 5000 mile OCI is a $70 difference in oil changes over 20,000 miles. During that time you will have spent (using highly optimistic figures) you will have spent well over $2000 in gas. Just food for thought.
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Audiobahn20 (05-14-24),
rmak (05-14-24)
05-14-24, 12:13 PM
#24
Driver School Candidate
Mobile 1 tests right below Amazon basics for metal on metal protection. There are much better products out there. Use what you want, but don't expect Mobile 1 to do anything special for protection. Any Major brand will do the same work.
If you want a truly superior oil, find some Pensoil Ultra Platinum, or use an Amsoil product. Valvoline uses more additives as well than Mobile 1.
In the end, if you change your oil every 5k miles with a full synthetic oil, you will never have an oil related failure. To try to save $15 by going 7500 miles without testing your oil is a bit ridiculous with a $55000 car.
At least that's the way I see it. I have 7 vehicles and 3 motorcycles I maintain. I have gone very deep down the rabbit hole on oil. I do my changes for about $33 depending on filter cost. I have tested only the motorcycle and Diesel oil. I'm down to 3500 miles on the 14 quart diesel change and 4000 on the big bike. Both well below manufacturer recommendations. The others don't work 1/2 as hard.
As for the manufacturers, they use extended changes to boost their environmental numbers and CAFE standards. They don't give a rats butt about if your car goes 100k or 200k. They are in the business of selling new cars.
If you want a truly superior oil, find some Pensoil Ultra Platinum, or use an Amsoil product. Valvoline uses more additives as well than Mobile 1.
In the end, if you change your oil every 5k miles with a full synthetic oil, you will never have an oil related failure. To try to save $15 by going 7500 miles without testing your oil is a bit ridiculous with a $55000 car.
At least that's the way I see it. I have 7 vehicles and 3 motorcycles I maintain. I have gone very deep down the rabbit hole on oil. I do my changes for about $33 depending on filter cost. I have tested only the motorcycle and Diesel oil. I'm down to 3500 miles on the 14 quart diesel change and 4000 on the big bike. Both well below manufacturer recommendations. The others don't work 1/2 as hard.
As for the manufacturers, they use extended changes to boost their environmental numbers and CAFE standards. They don't give a rats butt about if your car goes 100k or 200k. They are in the business of selling new cars.
First let me say that I am not a MOBIL 1 fan or even a user (except DELO). For me its simple, any application I have ever used it in showed elevated Iron in the UOA most likely due to premature shearing, nothing more, nothing less! This also pushed me into using only HDEO's in my JEEPs.
However, if you understand anything about the science of oil... You would understand why making the above statement as a blanket statement is incredibly false and misleading. AMAZON oil is actually a Warren product, same as ST, Kirkland and previously Valvoline WB.
To put that in perspective the Valvoline WB was an incredible DINO oil that could even stand up to a decent OCI in a Boxer (Subaru specifically) engine. I would go a step further and opine that the AMAZON oil in a ACEA A3/B4 would be a very usable oil in many applications including the ES.
The brand data aside, it comes down to how that base stock and add-pak function in a specific application.
To the point that some have already made, I will reinforce and offer two bits of advice... The ONLY WAY TO TRULY KNOW WHAT YOUR OCI SHOULD BE, is to do a UOA with TBN. It's that cut and dry! #2 is NEVER be BRAND loyal, use what's best for your application.
The easiest (not necessarily the best) place that may of us use is Blackstone Labs. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/
The car manufacturer, the dealer, most mechanics, your friend and some clown on the internet (unless you find someone knowledgeable about oil) will tell what your OCI should be to suite them, not YOUR engine in YOUR application. The things is that many of us have been doing this for many years and this has resulted in millions of data points on thousands of maintenance fluids existing all in one place online, https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/.
I see guys mentioning Pennzoil Platinum, this is a SOPUS product and is an incredibly stout oil, I use it where I can. My current preference for this engine (along with my MZR engines) will either be a UERO Castrol (not US Castrol) or an AMSOIL SS.
You may not even have to do your own UOA (although I would, its like doing blood work on your car), you can simply go over to the above forum and search your engine and see what oils are working the best for it, you also have to match driving conditions too. Remember that this engine is popular among many TOYOTA's, so don't limit your search to just the ES.
There are generally 2 types of members at BITOG, folks who want to maximize efficiency and have the lowest cost of maintenance while being protected; The other group wants to go above and beyond what's required and seek better protection or close to the best protection for their application.
I muster in with the second the type usually....
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autotech13 (05-15-24)
05-14-24, 12:21 PM
#25
Driver School Candidate
Oil is cheap. Engines are not. I use Pennzoil Platinum and I change it every 5000 miles. For me, that equates to once in the Spring and once in the Fall even if I haven't reached that mileage threshold.
Winter driving is harder on oil than Summer driving (unless you live in Death Valley). There's sheering that happens with the oil itself, not to mention your engine in general with poorer oil flow, as well as moisture trapping that can occur with low-mileage trips in the winter when engines don't reach temperatures sufficient enough to flash it all off adequately.
Highway driving is much friendlier to oil life.
Using a quality oil filter at every OCI is just as important as the oil itself. Some people have argued that changing the oil filter is more important than the oil. Debatable, but I always do both at once. YMMV.
I'd say that if you do a lot of highway driving, a 7500 or 10k OCI could be right for you. But comparing two oil changes at 20k miles compared to 4 with a 5000 mile OCI is a $70 difference in oil changes over 20,000 miles. During that time you will have spent (using highly optimistic figures) you will have spent well over $2000 in gas. Just food for thought.
Winter driving is harder on oil than Summer driving (unless you live in Death Valley). There's sheering that happens with the oil itself, not to mention your engine in general with poorer oil flow, as well as moisture trapping that can occur with low-mileage trips in the winter when engines don't reach temperatures sufficient enough to flash it all off adequately.
Highway driving is much friendlier to oil life.
Using a quality oil filter at every OCI is just as important as the oil itself. Some people have argued that changing the oil filter is more important than the oil. Debatable, but I always do both at once. YMMV.
I'd say that if you do a lot of highway driving, a 7500 or 10k OCI could be right for you. But comparing two oil changes at 20k miles compared to 4 with a 5000 mile OCI is a $70 difference in oil changes over 20,000 miles. During that time you will have spent (using highly optimistic figures) you will have spent well over $2000 in gas. Just food for thought.
The bigger thing about Winter driving being harder on oil, is idling.
People tend to idle their vehicle in the winter moths to warm them up, this is not really a good practice... 0MPH is 0MPG, but more so you are creating higher fuel dilution in your oil, which lowers the flash pint and allows the oil to shear.
In reality your vehicle heats up faster if your moving anyway! A good rule of thumb is that rather than waiting for your heat to blow warm, as soon as your RPM's settle, go.
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autotech13 (05-15-24)
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