Apparently it's not all that small.

 

Mazda's mismanagement makes Nissan look like the paragon of sensibility by comparison. The only brand I can even think of that has worse management would be Jaguar, which at least has Land Rover to cushion its mistakes.

 

I'm aware the conventional wisdom on this board is that Lexus has lost the plot, and the LS doesn't prove you wrong. But division-wide, Lexus still sells cars and makes money. And while we may not be wowed by the badge engineering at the lower end of the range, they can sell the RX and NX faster than they can build them -- with a really nice markup baked into their pricing over their Highlander and RAV4 siblings. It may not be an enthusiast's wet dream, but it's still looking very much like a viable business model.

 

Moto, you pound this point into the ground. But how many low-volume automakers are still making a go of it below the $100,000 price point? Doesn't sound like evidence of stupidity to me.

In addition, there are multiple dimensions of "stupidity." Okay, you don't like their new model and engine strategies. But this is also the same management that's managed to build the best-quality cars and SUVs this side of Toyota, and without Toyota's massive volume and profits to help them. If the cars were falling apart like British junk, you'd be the first one here to ream them for it. But they don't. And don't fall back on the shopworn "But it's all old tech" -- that never seems to help Chrysler.

 

Subaru was breaking record sales prior to the pandemic and their quality isn't exactly in the dumpster either.

I already mentioned it earlier in the thread, but Mazda has a cycle of making some dumb mistake and then having to axe that mistake shortly after. That costs a lot of money, money that they cannot afford to lose. If anything being small brand should mean that they are more conservative with their decision making, but they are doing anything but being conservative. Developing a new longitudinal platform, inline 6, and god knows what else with zero support and having it turn out to be this mediocre is not a sign of a company that knows what it's doing. Wanting to move upmarket and charge upmarket prices only works if the vehicles are competitive.

 

To be clear, much of Toyota's success in passing GM last year was doing to production issues, not because there was some overwhelming shift towards Toyota. Supply chain woes continue to be a huge issue, as we saw in Q3 where GM sold 555,580 vehicles in the quarter through September, 24% higher than last year when inventory shortages hit sales. Toyota's sales fell 7.1% to 526,017 vehicles in the same period. https://news.yahoo.com/1-gm-outsells...153016278.html

 

Did you know that Mazda in 2021 had their best sales in the US since 2005? Market share was the highest its ever been

so much for mismanagement

Huh?




They still make small cars. China and Mexico. GM could just import them to the USA

 

lol. In 2009 Subaru and Mazda were neck and neck, now compare the figures. It's not even close- that is why Mazda wants to be a low-volume luxury brand when they can't compete with Subaru as a volume brand.

 

How does Subaru's sales performance prove that Mazda is mismanaged or stupid? They can't both occupy the same market niche. On its face, that argument makes no sense.

 

Yes, you did already mention it earlier in the thread. In fact, I specified that's part of what i was responding to. Okay, you STILL don't like Mazda's new model and engine strategies. But that's not answering my point, it's just repeating your last one.

 

You asked:

That's Subaru. They were a low volume manufacturer, found their niche, and established more market presence and higher volume as a result. Mazda is still struggling to find their niche and their decision to "move upmarket" is a direct result of their inability to connect with buyers like Subaru.

 

strange how Subaru all of a sudden comes into the discussion when it was mentioned that Mazda had a record sales in 2021 even under the mismanagement of their leaders lol.

The real reason that Subaru is doing really well is Toyota. This was very forward thinking by Akio. Toyota is the reason why Subaru manufactures in the US as efficiently as they do.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with this. Outbacks, Foresters, and Crosstreks sell like beer at Happy Hour, not because Toyota owns part of Subaru, but because people love them....... they have been cult-vehicles for years, long before partnership with Toyota was ever a factor.

Again, I disagree. Subaru had a plant at Lafayette, IN, formerly shared with Isuzu, that produced efficiently for years. At one time, Camrys were also made there, but today it is Subaru-only. In fact, I myself, in 2006, bought an Outback that was made there.....kept it for almost 6 years.

 

Weren't you claiming how Genesis was a failing brand in the U.S. even though their sales went up by like 200% last year lol.

Mazda has some years where they go up and down, one year is just that. Sales volume increased is often tied to new vehicle introductions, last year I believe they introduced another new CUV. They have never been able to establish a decade of constant growth like Subaru, and their market share has remain largely unchanged even with an extra 30K vehicles from what they sold in 2018.

Like I said before, the whole reason Mazda wants to be a more luxury brand is for higher profits with smaller volumes, because their sales volumes are too low to compete as a mainstream brand. Subaru did what Mazda couldn't.

 

Toyota single-handedly saved the Subaru plant in Indiana from extinction. $230 million investment from Toyota helped bring 1000 new America jobs. They built around million Camrys at the Subaru plant. Subaru plug-ins also use Toyotas tech from the Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime. BRZ would never exist without Toyotas investment. (Now in the 2nd generation). Also factor in Toyota is building the Solterra. And remember that Subaru is now part of the Toyota Group. Toyota is a juggernaut with some deep pockets.

Toyota even has an ownership stake in Mazda
ubaru's
Toyoy



own horizontally-