Who has driven a Tesla?
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,644
Likes: 3,747
From: California
It's completely clear what I said, but OK, let me simplify my words a bit. Government collects about $100 to $150 a year in gas taxes from me, and individual per car. But now I don't buy gas (at least for two of my cars), so instead the government adds an additional fee (which is actually an EV tax of $100 a year to my registration fee). Tax me through gas, or tax me through an additional registration tax. Was that clear enough?
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
My car at $57k runs 3s to 60 and mid 11s in the quarter. Also handles far better than a stock accord with track mode and can actually drift at will, has AWD and does 0.95g on the skidpad stock along with a 48/52 weight balance. The natural competitor to the Model 3 is the 3 series and no-one but you compares it to a Camcord. BTW, the Model 3s are doing fantastic at autocross and short track events. They are far from Accords.
The 3 series is so far above the EVs for performance it's not comparable. The M3 will take any tesla 3s head off on a track.
The 3 is perfectly compatible to the cam/cord segment since that's the segment it is in when you look at quality (maybe), size, features, and marketed role. Just because you have the most clocked up version doesn't mean you can broadly compare it as the standard or I get to use the M cars as my standard and they provide a far better overall product and experience. Oh and if we don't use the 3P as the metric that actually makes it worse as the base model is 45k and will be OUTRUN by the accord.
Your car is by far the best value in the entire Tesla lineup. If we start comparing the cheaper/slower 3s it gets worse for the EV since the 10k+ price gap is still here allowing the gas car 100k miles of use in fuel costs and now it's losing 0-60. Im being nice with the gas cost too since I'm again leaving the cost of the charger out of it and assuming you are charging at home.
If I don't then the EV is 3k more for the charger if they home has the amperage to spare at the panel/service entrance. OR you can price compare using supercharging only since some people will not have any ability to home charge.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,644
Likes: 3,747
From: California
Do you track your car?
The 3 series is so far above the EVs for performance it's not comparable. The M3 will take any tesla 3s head off on a track.
The 3 is perfectly compatible to the cam/cord segment since that's the segment it is in when you look at quality (maybe), size, features, and marketed role. Just because you have the most clocked up version doesn't mean you can broadly compare it as the standard or I get to use the M cars as my standard and they provide a far better overall product and experience. Oh and if we don't use the 3P as the metric that actually makes it worse as the base model is 45k and will be OUTRUN by the accord.
Your car is by far the best value in the entire Tesla lineup. If we start comparing the cheaper/slower 3s it gets worse for the EV since the 10k+ price gap is still here allowing the gas car 100k miles of use in fuel costs and now it's losing 0-60
The 3 series is so far above the EVs for performance it's not comparable. The M3 will take any tesla 3s head off on a track.
The 3 is perfectly compatible to the cam/cord segment since that's the segment it is in when you look at quality (maybe), size, features, and marketed role. Just because you have the most clocked up version doesn't mean you can broadly compare it as the standard or I get to use the M cars as my standard and they provide a far better overall product and experience. Oh and if we don't use the 3P as the metric that actually makes it worse as the base model is 45k and will be OUTRUN by the accord.
Your car is by far the best value in the entire Tesla lineup. If we start comparing the cheaper/slower 3s it gets worse for the EV since the 10k+ price gap is still here allowing the gas car 100k miles of use in fuel costs and now it's losing 0-60
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
So you admit the handling doesn't matter much and it's more about straight line speed?
I've taken both my LS and A8 to the track....the 460 will be up in the spring. It's the best way to get used to a car and make changes if you are looking to modify.
Also my point about the 3 vs others? The 3P has the most advantage......
I've taken both my LS and A8 to the track....the 460 will be up in the spring. It's the best way to get used to a car and make changes if you are looking to modify.
Also my point about the 3 vs others? The 3P has the most advantage......
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,181
Likes: 244
From: New York
It's completely clear what I said, but OK, let me simplify my words a bit. Government collects about $100 to $150 a year in gas taxes from me, and individual per car. But now I don't buy gas (at least for two of my cars), so instead the government adds an additional fee (which is actually an EV tax of $100 a year to my registration fee). Tax me through gas, or tax me through an additional registration tax. Was that clear enough?
The only solution for the government would be a road tax per mile driven which would be simple to get since EVs now track everything about the car.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,466
Likes: 3,990
From: Maryland
So you admit the handling doesn't matter much and it's more about straight line speed?
I've taken both my LS and A8 to the track....the 460 will be up in the spring. It's the best way to get used to a car and make changes if you are looking to modify.
Also my point about the 3 vs others? The 3P has the most advantage......
I've taken both my LS and A8 to the track....the 460 will be up in the spring. It's the best way to get used to a car and make changes if you are looking to modify.
Also my point about the 3 vs others? The 3P has the most advantage......
And of course an M3 would handle better than a Model 3. I would hope so.
ClubLexus Stories
Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe
8 Tips for Improving Your Hybrid or Plug-in Hybrid's Efficiency!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Best Lexus Models No One Remembers
Joe Kucinski
TRD Off-Road Premium: Best 2026 4Runner, Except This One Thing
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Lexus/Toyotas With The LEAST 5-Year Depreciation
Joe Kucinski
Lexus LC500 Convertible Auction: A Preview of Rising Values?
Brett Foote
GX 550 vs TX 550: Best 3-Row Luxury Lexus Family Hauler
Michael S. Palmer
9 Best Lexus Models You Can Buy for Half Price (And 1 You Shouldn't!)
Joe Kucinski
2026 Lexus NX Buyer's Guide: Models, Features, Prices & More!
Brett Foote
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
Do you track your car?
The 3 series is so far above the EVs for performance it's not comparable. The M3 will take any tesla 3s head off on a track.
The 3 is perfectly compatible to the cam/cord segment since that's the segment it is in when you look at quality (maybe), size, features, and marketed role. Just because you have the most clocked up version doesn't mean you can broadly compare it as the standard or I get to use the M cars as my standard and they provide a far better overall product and experience. Oh and if we don't use the 3P as the metric that actually makes it worse as the base model is 45k and will be OUTRUN by the accord.
Your car is by far the best value in the entire Tesla lineup. If we start comparing the cheaper/slower 3s it gets worse for the EV since the 10k+ price gap is still here allowing the gas car 100k miles of use in fuel costs and now it's losing 0-60. Im being nice with the gas cost too since I'm again leaving the cost of the charger out of it and assuming you are charging at home.
If I don't then the EV is 3k more for the charger if they home has the amperage to spare at the panel/service entrance. OR you can price compare using supercharging only since some people will not have any ability to home charge.
The 3 series is so far above the EVs for performance it's not comparable. The M3 will take any tesla 3s head off on a track.
The 3 is perfectly compatible to the cam/cord segment since that's the segment it is in when you look at quality (maybe), size, features, and marketed role. Just because you have the most clocked up version doesn't mean you can broadly compare it as the standard or I get to use the M cars as my standard and they provide a far better overall product and experience. Oh and if we don't use the 3P as the metric that actually makes it worse as the base model is 45k and will be OUTRUN by the accord.
Your car is by far the best value in the entire Tesla lineup. If we start comparing the cheaper/slower 3s it gets worse for the EV since the 10k+ price gap is still here allowing the gas car 100k miles of use in fuel costs and now it's losing 0-60. Im being nice with the gas cost too since I'm again leaving the cost of the charger out of it and assuming you are charging at home.
If I don't then the EV is 3k more for the charger if they home has the amperage to spare at the panel/service entrance. OR you can price compare using supercharging only since some people will not have any ability to home charge.
The M cars are reaching $80-100k per car and is barely faster than my car...but they better be for that 50-100% price increase. Any Dual Motor Model 3 outside of the performance will outrun an M340 with a simple boost package you download and its still way below $55k. Sorry but the Accord isn't the competitor to the Model 3 as its wrong wheel drive and drives like crap. The Model 3 drives better than a standard 3 series...i've driven my friend's BMWs and am very familiar.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,644
Likes: 3,747
From: California
So you admit the handling doesn't matter much and it's more about straight line speed?
I've taken both my LS and A8 to the track....the 460 will be up in the spring. It's the best way to get used to a car and make changes if you are looking to modify.
Also my point about the 3 vs others? The 3P has the most advantage......
I've taken both my LS and A8 to the track....the 460 will be up in the spring. It's the best way to get used to a car and make changes if you are looking to modify.
Also my point about the 3 vs others? The 3P has the most advantage......
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,644
Likes: 3,747
From: California
That would create a massive shortfall if it was $100 flat fee. Average tax on gallon of gas is over 50cents fed/state tax combined. On average most ppl pay well over $1,000 in gas tax per year obviously depending how much you drive and how fuel efficient your car is.
The only solution for the government would be a road tax per mile driven which would be simple to get since EVs now track everything about the car.
The only solution for the government would be a road tax per mile driven which would be simple to get since EVs now track everything about the car.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
I paid $57k for my Model 3 Performance which is equivalent to a M-sport 330i. I specced out multiple cars before I bought my Model 3 and BMW's price equivalent is the 330i. An M340 will easily get you over ~$63k reasonably equipped.
The M cars are reaching $80-100k per car and is barely faster than my car...but they better be for that 50-100% price increase. Any Dual Motor Model 3 outside of the performance will outrun an M340 with a simple boost package you download and its still way below $55k. Sorry but the Accord isn't the competitor to the Model 3 as its wrong wheel drive and drives like crap. The Model 3 drives better than a standard 3 series...i've driven my friend's BMWs and am very familiar.
The M cars are reaching $80-100k per car and is barely faster than my car...but they better be for that 50-100% price increase. Any Dual Motor Model 3 outside of the performance will outrun an M340 with a simple boost package you download and its still way below $55k. Sorry but the Accord isn't the competitor to the Model 3 as its wrong wheel drive and drives like crap. The Model 3 drives better than a standard 3 series...i've driven my friend's BMWs and am very familiar.
Why don't you address the points I made about overall costs and the fact that a base 3 will lose to an accord 0-60.
Also no, an M340i with a tune will tie your 3P, and there is simply no comparison on track.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
Hopefully they keep it like it is but history shows it will only go up.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
The accord absolutely is and is in stock form faster than the current base model 3. Again you can't compare your car just because it's the best price to performance ratio in the brand.
Why don't you address the points I made about overall costs and the fact that a base 3 will lose to an accord 0-60.
Also no, an M340i with a tune will tie your 3P, and there is simply no comparison on track.
Why don't you address the points I made about overall costs and the fact that a base 3 will lose to an accord 0-60.
Also no, an M340i with a tune will tie your 3P, and there is simply no comparison on track.
https://insideevs.com/features/42534...d-hybrid-cost/
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
First of all, most people don't track their cars, especially their daily drivers. Most people don't modify their cars, ICE or EV. Of course handling does matter, a lot of EV's do very well at handling, some better than others just like their ICE counterparts. Your not the average car owner, so you are the exception to the rule. In practical terms taking tracking the car out of the equation, the Model 3 has the advantage because of it's cheaper cost to own and maintain vs any of it's ICE counterparts
You would NEVER say a 5.0 mustang is comparable to a LC500 just because the 0-60 is similar. The 3P is a EV muscle car that has one selling point/party trick and is absolutely in the same class as the cars I mentioned and even Tesla claims it's a family car. So let's compare it to the leaders of the segment no?
The 2.0 accord is faster than a base 3 and over 10k cheaper.
