I agree pbm317, but the difference now is that dealers are holding firm on ADM because they know someone else will pay it if one particular customer won’t, whereas in more normal market conditions the ADM dropped off the minute you push back and you were back to negotiating below MSRP with little to no effort. It’s just a weird market. But some are also losing sight of the fact that robust used pricing can can take away some, all or even more than the ADM. If you have a car to sell or trade your net cost may well be less than it was before the market changed.

 

That's another good thing (IMO), among many, that I liked about the way that Saturn used to operate. Salespeople not only dressed in an unconventional manner (bright-colored T-shirts with the company logo instead of traditional business-suits) but did not depend on commissions. They were paid a straight salary (I never asked how much, and it was probably none of my business), regardless of what kind of vehicle and and how many sales they handled. So, true, in prosperous times, they may have lost out on some big profits from a lot of commissions, but in bad times, they still had the security and income of their salary, which would continue as long as they did not quit, were not laid off, or the dealership folded. (Saturn called them "retailers", not dealerships). And, of course, the vehicles all sold strictly MSRP, by company policy + tax/tags....no markups or discounts regardless of market conditions. So, they (and the sales-managers) didn't have to waste time with customers haggling over the prices, simply draw up the paperwork. In fact, I don't know why Saturn and Scion bothered to even have sales-managers to start with....they were probably not needed if the regular salespeople didn't need to negotiate pries that the managers to approve.

 

The niche market vehicles have always had market adjustments on debut, The Bronco, Jeep Gladiator, Ram 1500 TRX, Hellcats and Jeep Trackhawks, just to name a few. My friend was shopping for a TRX Launch edition, they were going for $135k, with an 80k MSRP. He couldn't get them to budge, so he ordered a new one, not a launch edition, with more options for 85k. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Personally, I think the MSRP of most cars and trucks nowadays is insane. No way it costs $100,000 to build an escalade. Sorry, it just doesn't. Especially if you aren't paying retail for the parts. People are obviously paying it, but I am not. Not ever again. My truck will get driven into the ground and when its dead I will be an old beater truck as I don't drive it much anyway.

 

These prices are here to stay, but they wont be dealer markups in the future, rather the manufacturers will simply raise the prices. Even if you ignore the supply and demand, manufacturers have to make adjustments because raw materials skyrockets - steel has tripled since 2020, semiconductor prices are insane, labor and shipping costs are up. Honestly, the 5k markup is a bargain.

 

That was not at all my experience.

 

This is a product of you getting older and comparing prices today with what they were when you were younger. Its a function of inflation, prices are not much higher than they were 20 years ago its just money is worth less.

If you adjust the $100,000 for the Escalade to what that was worth in 2001, its $64,000. What did an Escalade cost in 2001? They started at about $49,000. 2021 Escalade starts at $76k, adjusted for inflation back to 2001 thats $49,000.

Thats no coincidence.

 

My 600 stickered for a ridiculous $126,626 in 2010. The same amount in 2021 dollars would be $154,484, an insane number.

 

Well the 600 was always a car with just a ridiculous price.

 

The Saturn reality was far from their propaganda and ultimately an abject failure. There were more than 400 Saturn dealerships and nearly as many pay plans for their salespeople. There were salary based plans where the salary was determined by the salesman's sales history, there were volume incentivized plans, and many plans based on flat fees per new car sold and a percentage of gross profit on used car sales.

Industry surveys showed more than 60% of their sales were negotiated in some form after the first 30 months in business. This took the form of additional equipment and accessories, negotiated trade prices, extended warranties, and other dealership based incentives.

When bills have to be paid, inventory is sitting and costing you money, you are receiving more vehicles than you are delivering, and your employees are leaving because they can't make a living...things are going to change. When I used to ask my fellow dealers who actually owned Saturn stores how the grand experiment was going...they most often just rolled their eyes!

 

Saturn failed, not because of their system or so-called "propaganda", but, because, in second decade, from 2000 on, GM stopped letting Saturn be Saturn, and what kept its success going. They mismanaged it from the top, tried to turn it into a mainstream division....and it just didn't work.



Of course they are going to roll their eyes...the system wouldn't let them price-gouge. Poor fellows.

 

The M-B 600 was always a car with a ridiculous price. But there was a time when that price was probably justified......before the mid-to-late 90s, it was arguably the most solidly-built regular passenger car in the world. The ones from the 70s, from I remember, were like tanks.

 

Its a business lol, the system wouldn't let them be profitable.

He's walking about the Lexus LS600hL

 

I disagree, if you look at Saturn's first ten years in business. It was the success-story of the industry.....until GM management screwed it up.

Even the assembly-line workers at the Spring Hill plant, where the S-Series was built, were happy....a true rarity in the auto industry. They worked round-the-clock in air-conditioning, had a special pay/benefit contract that was different from the rest of the UAW, and put on a Once-a-Year Saturn Homecoming and picnic at the plant for Saturn owners to tour it. In fact, in some cases, on request, customers who had ordered new Saturns could actually walk down the plant, next to the assembly-lines, and watch their car being built and inspected.




Even with the LS 600h, the price may have been justified, given its fit/finish, sophistication, refinement, reliability, and the amount of standard equipment on it. I can't speak as an expert on it, because I'm not, but I did sample the regular LS from that era, and it was one of the best straight-luxury cars I've ever drove. I can understand why you liked your so much....and why you are disappointed in the LS500.

 

I don't agree that the price was justified. An LS600hL is largely an LS460L, thy wanted to price the 600hL similar to the V12 options from MB and BMW and it just didnt make any sense. That car was worth $10k more than a similar LS460L, not $30k more.

 

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. The additional HP was offset by the weight gain of the hybrid system. The MPGs were just a wee bit better than a 460. It has a couple of nicer interior touches with the leather stitched dash being especially nice.