View Poll Results: Tesla Model 3 Build Defects - Deal Breaker?
Yes
31
65.96%
No
11
23.40%
Maybe
5
10.64%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll
Tesla Model 3 (merged megathread)
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
I had the opportunity to drive a dual-motor Model 3 over the weekend and must say that I was thoroughly impressed. Build quality was as expected (meh, overall), however, the driving experience surpassed any expectations I had. The car rides, accelerates, brakes, and steers wonderfully and feels much sportier than I anticipated. The info screen isn't nearly as overwhelming as someone coming from a typical 15-30 year old car (both of my cars are old lol) might expect. The acceleration is awesome, of course, and speed is very easily achieved/maintained. The regenerative braking is flat out awesome once you get the hang of it. It nearly eliminates the need to use the brake pedal. I didn't spend much time in auto-pilot as I was more curious about how it reacted to drive commands... However, that too was rather impressive all things considered.
I must say, in an ideal world where money wasn't an option I'd own one as a daily driver to and from work in a heartbeat. However, they're out of my price range anytime in the near future. Overall impression - incredibly cool automobile that gives a pleasing look into the future of tech and automobiles (and how well they can coexist). ICE vehicles will always make my heart pound faster, but like most, I'm open to options that allow us to better our planet, reduce waste, and create a sustainable future for generations to come. However, until infrastructure can supply and support more sustainable energy, and these cars become more affordable, I suppose I'll keep pushing the pedal in my SC300 (with a big *** smile on my face).
I must say, in an ideal world where money wasn't an option I'd own one as a daily driver to and from work in a heartbeat. However, they're out of my price range anytime in the near future. Overall impression - incredibly cool automobile that gives a pleasing look into the future of tech and automobiles (and how well they can coexist). ICE vehicles will always make my heart pound faster, but like most, I'm open to options that allow us to better our planet, reduce waste, and create a sustainable future for generations to come. However, until infrastructure can supply and support more sustainable energy, and these cars become more affordable, I suppose I'll keep pushing the pedal in my SC300 (with a big *** smile on my face).
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,044
Likes: 98
From: Southeastern PA
Ye its only fact that 3 Series has never been better that it is today.
The 330i with the new turbo 4cyl now puts out 255hp/294tq. I have driven the Msport variant at length and honestly this motor is so good and actually sounds nice there is no real reason to get M340i. Anyone that can drive 330i Msport will walkaway impressed and this is coming from M3 owner. The M340i will be overwhelming for most buyers as a daily and you can’t really enjoy the extra power in most situations.
People forget in generations prior to F30, 3series sales were combined for sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon.
Now you have the 4 series which also has a 4door GranCoupe variant so BMW is the one that destroyed 3series sales and “cool” factor not Tesla. If you add 3series and 4series sales together they are really not that far off the peak years. Obviously now the X3 and X5 are the top dogs in sales.
The 330i with the new turbo 4cyl now puts out 255hp/294tq. I have driven the Msport variant at length and honestly this motor is so good and actually sounds nice there is no real reason to get M340i. Anyone that can drive 330i Msport will walkaway impressed and this is coming from M3 owner. The M340i will be overwhelming for most buyers as a daily and you can’t really enjoy the extra power in most situations.
People forget in generations prior to F30, 3series sales were combined for sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon.
Now you have the 4 series which also has a 4door GranCoupe variant so BMW is the one that destroyed 3series sales and “cool” factor not Tesla. If you add 3series and 4series sales together they are really not that far off the peak years. Obviously now the X3 and X5 are the top dogs in sales.
Yes--now you have the 3-Series and the 4-Series, with 4-door hatchback "coupes", 5-door hatchback "sedans" and, until the G20, wagons. But the fact is that BMW has clearly shown that being "The Ultimate Driving Machine" is not its primary focus anymore, and it's more important to appeal to a wider customer base. I have an F30, and I'm ok with BMW's strategy--it's my 1st 3-Series, so I don't have a prior version to benchmark it against.
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,705
Likes: 6
From: Florida
Ye its only fact that 3 Series has never been better that it is today.
The 330i with the new turbo 4cyl now puts out 255hp/294tq. I have driven the Msport variant at length and honestly this motor is so good and actually sounds nice there is no real reason to get M340i. Anyone that can drive 330i Msport will walkaway impressed and this is coming from M3 owner. The M340i will be overwhelming for most buyers as a daily and you can’t really enjoy the extra power in most situations.
People forget in generations prior to F30, 3series sales were combined for sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon.
Now you have the 4 series which also has a 4door GranCoupe variant so BMW is the one that destroyed 3series sales and “cool” factor not Tesla. If you add 3series and 4series sales together they are really not that far off the peak years. Obviously now the X3 and X5 are the top dogs in sales.
The 330i with the new turbo 4cyl now puts out 255hp/294tq. I have driven the Msport variant at length and honestly this motor is so good and actually sounds nice there is no real reason to get M340i. Anyone that can drive 330i Msport will walkaway impressed and this is coming from M3 owner. The M340i will be overwhelming for most buyers as a daily and you can’t really enjoy the extra power in most situations.
People forget in generations prior to F30, 3series sales were combined for sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon.
Now you have the 4 series which also has a 4door GranCoupe variant so BMW is the one that destroyed 3series sales and “cool” factor not Tesla. If you add 3series and 4series sales together they are really not that far off the peak years. Obviously now the X3 and X5 are the top dogs in sales.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 525
From: Maryland
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
Originally Posted by patgilm
My GTR tech just bought a Model 3 dual motor. His friend is a Tesla service tech and he told him not to get the performance due to the price for better brakes, bigger wheels/summer tires (which are useless here in the fall/winter) and a small spoiler and that for $2k he could get the same acceleration performance as your car and it would save him $5k. Do you think it’s worth the additional $5k for the 3P or are there more benefits?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 525
From: Maryland
What he is talking about is the P3D stealth. It has the same acceleration as the P3D full but lesser brakes, smaller wheels and no spoiler. I think if you're in California, it's worth the full P3D. You may want to get the stealth version if you live in bad weather because the wheels are better for snow. Both versions are marked as Performance. The Stealth version is harder to find as you can't order it. You have to find it in inventory.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
Yes it’s the stealth version but I don’t fully understand why you have to find it in inventory. Wouldn’t it just be a software upgrade over the air? He also didn’t get full autopilot because his friend said they usually offer it to current customers after the fact for like $2k.
The full self drive is a $7k option now vs. $6k a couple months ago. Musk said the price will go up every year as they get nearer to completion on the full self drive software. The $2k they offered in the past was for people that ordered enhanced autopilot which is better than regular autopilot but not as good as full self drive. For $2k, Tesla would upgrade you to the full self drive as this required a hardware change. FSD isn't worth it...why buy a Performance car if you're not gonna drive it? The regular autopilot that comes in the car is good enough to let you sit back and your car drive you in the lane that you choose...its like a super cruise control that will speed up and slow down with flow of traffic.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
Tesla Model 3 Teardown Reveals Why Other Automakers Are Lagging Behind
Tesla is truly a disruptive innovator in the industry. Not just because of their technology, but their lack of baggage is really disrupting the entire supply chain business model. Anyone read Innovator's Dilemma? This may force some automakers to start revising how they do business.
It's no secret that Tesla's bread and butter is its technology. As an automaker that exclusively builds electric cars, its appliance-like approach to cars has proven to appeal to those interested in buying the latest high-end tech. Now, after a teardown of the company's newest Model 3 architecture, Nikkei Business Publications uncovered various reasons why the American automaker is on top of the EV game, and why other legacy brands aren't.
Specifically, Nikkei placed its sights on Tesla's latest Autopilot computer known as Hardware v3 (HW3). First announced in the third quarter of 2018, HW3 is the current-generation brain behind everything inside of a Tesla vehicle. This means anything from the infotainment system to the car's semi-autonomous driving suite (Autopilot) is routed through the powerful computer.
More importantly is that Tesla designed these modules from the ground up completely in-house, meaning that Tesla cut its reliance on other suppliers who contributed to previous iterations of its modules. Instead, the automaker built a new system on a proprietary architecture, bringing the entire process from software to silicon in-house.
When tearing down HW3, Nikkei claims that an engineer from a "major Japanese automaker" declared that their firm simply "cannot do it."
By that, the engineer didn't mean that the automaker didn't have the means to produce such a piece of technology, but that they don't expect to condense the number of ECUs inside of a vehicle around a piece of hardware the way Tesla does. Instead of a modernized vertical approach, many legacy automakers still intend to rely on a theoretical web of wiring to get the job done. This deepens the reach of the automaker's supply chain for any given platform, meaning that cutting down on the number of ECUs it buys from Bosch, Delphi, or Steyr could drastically affect upstream suppliers and their employees.
Consequently, this same reason is why Tesla is free to sink money into in-house development and build components at-will; because outside of the raw materials needed, its supply chain is non-existent. And because Tesla's current lineup of vehicles isn't muddied by non-modular architectures and multiple powerplants, the automaker is free to build a platform that interacts with all of its vehicles on a global scale. Over-the-air updates pushed to a vehicle means that software-based maintenance, diagnostics, and fixes can all be applied without a trip to the dealer.
Nikkei reports that industry experts believe that other automakers won't have similar computing power until around 2025 at the earliest, placing Tesla squarely ahead of the competition.
We're inclined to believe that Nikkei's analysis is fairly accurate, but not just because of Tesla's head-start. Historically, legacy automakers have been known to fall onto the conservative side of technology. It would be hard-pressed to believe that automakers have not explored in-house development for their respective next-generation battery electric vehicle platforms. Volkswagen, as an example, opened a new data center in Norway last year that it uses as a central hub for digitalized vehicle development and has been working globally to hire deep learning engineers.
Is it the automaker or supply chain that is stunting the growth of an industry?
One thing is for certain, if automakers believe that one approach is more profitable, the industry will inevitably sway that way. The more important question is: Is Tesla at the forefront of a new industry trend, or is investing time and money into a process better left to current industry suppliers?
Tesla Model 3 Teardown Reveals Why Other Automakers Are Lagging Behind
Is the traditional supply chain a modern automaker's worst enemy?
BY ROB STUMPFIt's no secret that Tesla's bread and butter is its technology. As an automaker that exclusively builds electric cars, its appliance-like approach to cars has proven to appeal to those interested in buying the latest high-end tech. Now, after a teardown of the company's newest Model 3 architecture, Nikkei Business Publications uncovered various reasons why the American automaker is on top of the EV game, and why other legacy brands aren't.
Specifically, Nikkei placed its sights on Tesla's latest Autopilot computer known as Hardware v3 (HW3). First announced in the third quarter of 2018, HW3 is the current-generation brain behind everything inside of a Tesla vehicle. This means anything from the infotainment system to the car's semi-autonomous driving suite (Autopilot) is routed through the powerful computer.
More importantly is that Tesla designed these modules from the ground up completely in-house, meaning that Tesla cut its reliance on other suppliers who contributed to previous iterations of its modules. Instead, the automaker built a new system on a proprietary architecture, bringing the entire process from software to silicon in-house.
When tearing down HW3, Nikkei claims that an engineer from a "major Japanese automaker" declared that their firm simply "cannot do it."
By that, the engineer didn't mean that the automaker didn't have the means to produce such a piece of technology, but that they don't expect to condense the number of ECUs inside of a vehicle around a piece of hardware the way Tesla does. Instead of a modernized vertical approach, many legacy automakers still intend to rely on a theoretical web of wiring to get the job done. This deepens the reach of the automaker's supply chain for any given platform, meaning that cutting down on the number of ECUs it buys from Bosch, Delphi, or Steyr could drastically affect upstream suppliers and their employees.
Consequently, this same reason is why Tesla is free to sink money into in-house development and build components at-will; because outside of the raw materials needed, its supply chain is non-existent. And because Tesla's current lineup of vehicles isn't muddied by non-modular architectures and multiple powerplants, the automaker is free to build a platform that interacts with all of its vehicles on a global scale. Over-the-air updates pushed to a vehicle means that software-based maintenance, diagnostics, and fixes can all be applied without a trip to the dealer.
Nikkei reports that industry experts believe that other automakers won't have similar computing power until around 2025 at the earliest, placing Tesla squarely ahead of the competition.
We're inclined to believe that Nikkei's analysis is fairly accurate, but not just because of Tesla's head-start. Historically, legacy automakers have been known to fall onto the conservative side of technology. It would be hard-pressed to believe that automakers have not explored in-house development for their respective next-generation battery electric vehicle platforms. Volkswagen, as an example, opened a new data center in Norway last year that it uses as a central hub for digitalized vehicle development and has been working globally to hire deep learning engineers.
Is it the automaker or supply chain that is stunting the growth of an industry?
One thing is for certain, if automakers believe that one approach is more profitable, the industry will inevitably sway that way. The more important question is: Is Tesla at the forefront of a new industry trend, or is investing time and money into a process better left to current industry suppliers?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,445
Likes: 373
From: ON/NY
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,430
Likes: 249
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs