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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 05:31 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
Toyota promises SSBs by 2016, promised EVs by 2020. What we are seeing are stall tactics, failed ones at that people want EVs faster than they can be built.
I sense negativity
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 05:41 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Wilson2000
I'm waiting (and waiting, and waiting) for a Lexus EV, before taking the plunge in transitioning to EV's, so, it's great to see articles and pictures showing some progress!

Tesla is a great, innovative/creative company, but, are in their infancy, and unable thus far, to compete with Lexus in terms of quality. I'm less concerned with fit and finish than I am with overall reliability. Since several in this thread have touted Tesla's reliability, I checked the Consumer Reports data and found Tesla's offerings still mostly average, to far below average. The low ratings are not just for trim, fit and finish either. They run the gamut...power equipment, in-car electronics, HVAC, suspension and drive system. Once one has experienced the solid reliability of Lexus, it would be hard to accept average and far below average reliability. I'll keep waiting!
The Model 3 has far better reliability than the Model S/X especially from earlier years. Those cars are far more complex though and things like air suspension and earlier battery packs had many issues. If you visit the Model S forums vs. Model 3, the Model S from earlier years had all of the issues you mentioned above. The newer Model S was much more reliable but now that they've refreshed it, I can't speak to its reliability as 1st year Model Teslas don't tend to do great (as evidenced by issues with the Model Y). Its definitely a crap shoot but I bought the Model 3 because of careful research and found that it had acceptable levels of reliability for me. Overall, since there isn't any maintenance, its been more convenient ownership experience as I never see the service centers anymore but again, YMMV. Most people on the forums are very happy with the car but there are a few that have had a very bad experience with multiple issues.

Generally, Lexus cars are always reliable but I find the maintenance to be expensive as my IS350 ate tires and brakes annually (like many others in the IS forums).Overall, I wonder how Lexus dealers feel about EVs that require no real annual maintenance and very little upkeep.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 05:46 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
I sense negativity
Don't blame me I didn't make those promises.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 05:51 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by EZZ
The Model 3 has far better reliability than the Model S/X especially from earlier years. Those cars are far more complex though and things like air suspension and earlier battery packs had many issues. If you visit the Model S forums vs. Model 3, the Model S from earlier years had all of the issues you mentioned above. The newer Model S was much more reliable but now that they've refreshed it, I can't speak to its reliability as 1st year Model Teslas don't tend to do great (as evidenced by issues with the Model Y). Its definitely a crap shoot but I bought the Model 3 because of careful research and found that it had acceptable levels of reliability for me. Overall, since there isn't any maintenance, its been more convenient ownership experience as I never see the service centers anymore but again, YMMV. Most people on the forums are very happy with the car but there are a few that have had a very bad experience with multiple issues.

Generally, Lexus cars are always reliable but I find the maintenance to be expensive as my IS350 ate tires and brakes annually (like many others in the IS forums).Overall, I wonder how Lexus dealers feel about EVs that require no real annual maintenance and very little upkeep.
Actually my IS350 hasn't been that expensive to maintain. Unless you count the mods. Installed Michellin pilots in September 2019, I still have at least two years on them. I found the secret is inflate the fronts to about 38 to 40 PSI, and rears 37. Also did brakes around same time, they also have about 2 more years on them
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 06:08 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
Actually my IS350 hasn't been that expensive to maintain. Unless you count the mods. Installed Michellin pilots in September 2019, I still have at least two years on them. I found the secret is inflate the fronts to about 38 to 40 PSI, and rears 37. Also did brakes around same time, they also have about 2 more years on them
The 3rd gen had premature tire wear issues. A mitigation technique was to replace the bushings with a slightly harder version from the RCF. I went through 3 sets of PIlot sports before this was found out and the brakes only last 15k at most in the F Sport models. I ended up using Akebonos to make the brakes last longer

Of course my RX needed way less maintenance but most FWD family haulers do. I'm amazed that performance EVs don't require heavy maintenance that's typically associated with owning a sporty car.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 06:09 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Wilson2000
I'm waiting (and waiting, and waiting) for a Lexus EV, before taking the plunge in transitioning to EV's, so, it's great to see articles and pictures showing some progress!

Tesla is a great, innovative/creative company, but, are in their infancy, and unable thus far, to compete with Lexus in terms of quality. I'm less concerned with fit and finish than I am with overall reliability. Since several in this thread have touted Tesla's reliability, I checked the Consumer Reports data and found Tesla's offerings still mostly average, to far below average. The low ratings are not just for trim, fit and finish either. They run the gamut...power equipment, in-car electronics, HVAC, suspension and drive system. Once one has experienced the solid reliability of Lexus, it would be hard to accept average and far below average reliability. I'll keep waiting!
Consumer Reports rates Tesla #1 in Customer Satisfaction, by far. CR sez cust sat is the most important metric they report on.
With all its warts, Tesla kicks the snot out of Porsche, Lexus, Toyota, you name it.

Don't get me wrong, I want Lexus (and others) to get into the game and give Tesla some competition.
One more thing... The Model S Plaid is an incredible achievement. The Roadster 2 will be even better. These cars kill high end sports cars costing million$ more.
The SEMI truck and (butt ugly) Cybertruk are near. The Model 2 is looming. Vans and busses are in the plans.

And who else has a charging network?

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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 06:20 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by EZZ
The 3rd gen had premature tire wear issues. A mitigation technique was to replace the bushings with a slightly harder version from the RCF. I went through 3 sets of PIlot sports before this was found out and the brakes only last 15k at most in the F Sport models. I ended up using Akebonos to make the brakes last longer

Of course my RX needed way less maintenance but most FWD family haulers do. I'm amazed that performance EVs don't require heavy maintenance that's typically associated with owning a sporty car.
The 2nd gen has the same outer wear issue for the front tires. I also installed RC-F LCA bushings on mine too help mitigate the issue, and get better steering and braking
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 08:15 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
The entry level Tesla Model 3 is rated at 263 miles of range. How many people will pay $60 large (or a lot more) for a Lexus that cannot keep up with an entry level Tesla?
while range is important, there's more to a vehicle than that. also, endless reviews show tesla's range claims are exaggerated while mach-e, kona ev and others consistently meet or exceed their range claims.

curious, what's the longest trip you've taken in your model 3 and what's the longest range you've achieved on a single charge?
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 08:20 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Consumer Reports rates Tesla #1 in Customer Satisfaction, by far. CR sez cust sat is the most important metric they report on.
With all its warts, Tesla kicks the snot out of Porsche, Lexus, Toyota, you name it.

Don't get me wrong, I want Lexus (and others) to get into the game and give Tesla some competition.
One more thing... The Model S Plaid is an incredible achievement. The Roadster 2 will be even better. These cars kill high end sports cars costing million$ more.
The SEMI truck and (butt ugly) Cybertruk are near. The Model 2 is looming. Vans and busses are in the plans.

And who else has a charging network?
are you the kirk kreifels of the tesla world?

Semi and cybertruck are near huh?
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 08:44 PM
  #130  
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I really like the styling of Model S and this coupe ^.
Styling sells.

Lexus styling is origami-like.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 09:12 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by EZZ
Generally, Lexus cars are always reliable but I find the maintenance to be expensive as my IS350 ate tires and brakes annually (like many others in the IS forums).Overall, I wonder how Lexus dealers feel about EVs that require no real annual maintenance and very little upkeep.
You must drive like a maniac, I tend to drive somewhat spirited on occasion and my 2016 IS350 had original brakes throughout my entire lease when I turned it in with 36k miles and my tires needed replacing at 24k miles. The only maintenance it needed during my lease was two oil changes since the first one was free. I did replace the cabin filter and air filters myself and that was cheap. Heck even my two GX’s didn’t need brakes until over 50k miles and those were heavy trucks.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 09:48 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by patgilm
You must drive like a maniac, I tend to drive somewhat spirited on occasion and my 2016 IS350 had original brakes throughout my entire lease when I turned it in with 36k miles and my tires needed replacing at 24k miles. The only maintenance it needed during my lease was two oil changes since the first one was free. I did replace the cabin filter and air filters myself and that was cheap. Heck even my two GX’s didn’t need brakes until over 50k miles and those were heavy trucks.
I've had my 2010 IS350 Sport since September 2019, and 20k later I've only had to do routine maintenance, including transmission fluid swap at 68k. Most of the money I spent was on mods like F-Sport sway bars, rear chassis brace and ISF steering ECU. I think she's going to be last of her kind, so I'm keeping her and giving her to my son when he turns 19 in almost 2 years. By than he will be in his second year of college, he starts this September
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 09:51 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by patgilm
You must drive like a maniac, I tend to drive somewhat spirited on occasion and my 2016 IS350 had original brakes throughout my entire lease when I turned it in with 36k miles and my tires needed replacing at 24k miles. The only maintenance it needed during my lease was two oil changes since the first one was free. I did replace the cabin filter and air filters myself and that was cheap. Heck even my two GX’s didn’t need brakes until over 50k miles and those were heavy trucks.
A lot of people had similar issues as mine. The F Sport brakes just wore out quickly and the the inner tire wear was pretty bad. Check out inner tire wear on the 3IS forums and many many threads on it.

One of the best experiences of an EV is one pedal driving. My brakes will easily last over 100k and I still drive aggressively every time I get in the car. Not to mention EVs have very little wear and tear from aggressive driving.

I hope they release a crossover SUV with the ability to use the Tesla chargers. Toyota should just partner up and pay for the ability to use that network.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by EZZ
A lot of people had similar issues as mine. The F Sport brakes just wore out quickly and the the inner tire wear was pretty bad. Check out inner tire wear on the 3IS forums and many many threads on it.

One of the best experiences of an EV is one pedal driving. My brakes will easily last over 100k and I still drive aggressively every time I get in the car. Not to mention EVs have very little wear and tear from aggressive driving.

I hope they release a crossover SUV with the ability to use the Tesla chargers. Toyota should just partner up and pay for the ability to use that network.
If they can partner with Subaru, BMW and Lotus (Corolla XRS), I don't see why not. Also the 2013 RAV4 EV had the Tesla electric motor
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 09:56 PM
  #135  
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Why doesn't Toyota rebadge a Tesla, they've already sold their soul and did it with BMW no dignity left anyway.
Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
Also the 2013 RAV4 EV had the Tesla electric motor
Toyota deep six'd that partnership and sold their Tesla shares shortly after so they could focus on hydrogen.
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