Pretty much all DI engines get chocked up with carbon, unless they also have port injection, which adds to the complexity. Even worse for modern diesels, with their DEF systems and multiple EGRs. Then you have modern thin oil and lightweight pistons - all to squeeze an extra 1-2 mpg and the cost of longevity.

Regarding software, both EVs and ICEs can run without any software, with purely mechanical components. You should research how complex the software for ICE engine and transmission management has gotten, and it's getting more and more complex to squeeze extra efficiency to comply with evermore stringent emission requirements. In the newest turbo motors the source code for just the engine management can have hundreds of thousands of variable. With upcoming US and Euro 7 emission standards, its only going to get worse.

And then you have so many other reasons why EVs are far superior. No need for emissions systems, no need for complex engine cooling systems, real world thermal efficiency of 30-40% vs 70%, easier to implement torque vectoring, instant torque, no real need for transmissions. Charging and battery tech are the only downfalls.

 

The one thing that concerns during all these EV discussions is how we are going to dispose the millions of wasted batteries from EV's in the future. As far as I know the batteries can't be recycled or repurposed.

Where are all the environmentalists, global warming people? Maybe I have missed it, does any one know here?

Are we going to incinerate them?, send them to outer space or bury them in landfills?

 

Battery components are extremely valuable and they are recycled.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/bat...ica-and-europe

 

Many cars have Port Injection to go along with DI, with redesigned combustion chambers/higher thermal temp cycles and other technologies on newer engines most have eliminated the carbon choking from only DI, a few still had it like the IS250 engine because it lacked port injection and some BMW engines but it has been largely solved by now. I just don't hear or read about people having to deal with carbon buildup on the vast majority of modern engines with DI. I try not to use very thin oil, I will never go to a 10 or 16W, last oil change I mixed a pretty thick 0W30 with 0W20 to give slightly more protection but the 3.5 in Lexus cars is a very stout engine.

It's all complex now especially with all the complex systems/features automakers put in cars, people want though I question why we really need some of these systems and how useful they really are(lane keep assist, "self driving" , cylinder deactivation, needlessly complex audio/ent buried in touch screens, etc). I would prefer not to have all this nonsense adding cost, complexity, buried in screens, etc. I would rather have physical buttons and not as many useless features that can go wrong, many which are buried in touchscreen menu's. Stringent regulations will make everything worse, not better, and it solves nothing.

EV's have their own things they have to deal with, heat is one of them, batteries get very hot, they also need cooling/heat management design and measures but they are also very negatively effected by cold weather too. They also need to be designed to protect passengers from fire/explosions. One of the issues with Lithium batteries is how hot they burn and how difficult they are to put out when they burn, sometimes almost impossible to put out, you also have the weight they have to deal with and that will be a problem on our roads and bridges, it also leads to more tire wear/shorter tire life. More power plants, larger powerplants to charge EV's creates problems/more pollution, can be worse then what you get from a modern IC vehicle, there is what to do with all these big used batteries, you also have lithium and other rare earth element mining which is extremely destructive and dirty to the environment and all the charging infrastructure which is also expensive, destructive, resource heavy, etc. EV's just aren't solving anything of any significance and creating their own sets of problems which will likely be worse over IC engines. The main polluters are boats, big ships, aircraft, diesel work trucks, diesel 18 wheelers/hauling trucks, those are what need to be addressed pollution wise yet they won't with EV's because it simply can't be done or would be far too expensive and complex.

 

that is hilariously wrong.

the software controlling a modern ICE is hugely complex. as you've pointed out there can be MULTIPLE types of injection, there's flaps and controls for exhaust routing, cylinder deactivation, complex intake/exhaust valve timing algorithms, performance curves and modes, there's code for cold/warm starting and operation, etc.

regardless, i disagree with Och on cars getting choked up with carbon, overall it's a non-issue in the market.

 

Not an issue for those who lease, once the vehicle gets a bit order there is a slew of issues. Valves get covered with carbon, restricting airflow and often not closing fully resulting in loss of compression. This reduces performance, efficiency and emissions. Also, high pressure injectors are far less reliable than traditional, and lose their efficiency as well. The only remedy for this to have both direct injection and port injection, and I don't know how many manufacturers besides Toyota actually do this, but soon they won't be able to even if they want to - port injection reduces efficiency and likely won't meet ridiculous Euro 7 requirements.

With that being said, the current generation of ICE engines have probably peaked out. While new, they are the best they have ever been when it comes to power and efficiency, but in order to comply with future emissions we will likely lose 6 and 8 cylinder engines for good.

 

The fire and explosions apply to ICE's just as much if not more. But yeah, battery tech in its current state is the major issue holding back EVs. So while the EV drivetrain is far superior to ICE drivetrain, EV as a package in its current state it still loses out to ICEs for most purposes because of the battery shortcomings.

 

The new batteries coming out will charge to mostly full in 15 minutes. That may be good enough for most people but the infrastructure is the key hurdle. The long adoption curve on this will be directly related to infra rollout.

 

I have not heard of the carbon fouling with newer vehicles even out of lease when they only use DI. It was a problem with some vehicles/engines early on with the adoption but they have mostly solved that problem, I just don't hear about it with DI engines anymore, I think new combustion chamber designs, injector designs, heat cycles has cured the carbon fouling on DI cars with more miles/years on them, I just don't hear about it anymore but I agree it was a issue with several engines/cars when it first started being implemented, IS250 and BMW's/Fords were the worst and there were lawsuits brought. I still think a dual injection system with Port injection could pass more stringent regulations with new tech/designs, not even sure if it is used all the time either. I know the Acura NSX engine has dual injection and several Audi and Ford engines have it, I think other makes do dual injection too, not just Toyota which doesn't have it on all engines either.

 

Lithium batteries burn much hotter and longer then gasoline fires, gasoline fires with cars are relatively easy to put out, there have been some fires with EV's where they could not be put out, they kept reigniting and they had to just let them burn for hours. That could be a major issue if they are implemented in mass numbers.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4721...to-extinguish/

https://coffeeordie.com/tesla-battery-fire/

 

Carbon buildup issues have absolutely not been resolved, if anything they are worse on turbocharged engine because of blow by. You're just not going to hear about it on a 3 year old engines as not enough carbon has been built up, but once they approaches 5 year 60k mark, they are choked up.

Arguing over gasoline fire vs lithium battery fire is like comparing gonorrhea to herpes, I have no idea which one is worse and don't care to find out.

 

What are examples of more modern engine designs(5 or 6 years old) that are still having carbon buildup issues from DI systems, still need the cleanings with walnut shells, etc? We know about the IS250, older Audi's, Fords, BMW's especially, and I think some Porsche's from 8-10+ years ago but what more modern designs still have the issues? I just don't think automakers would design/keep engines that had serious carbon buildup issues once they knew about it and will face lawsuits, angry customers, intervention from govt.

 

All of them, except ones with dual injection, and even then it only partially solves the problem. Manufacturers build these engines to last through the warranty period, they need to comply with economy and emissions standards and so they resort to very questionable designs. Carbon build up, oil consumption on Honda, oil and gas dilution - stuff you just didn't hear about 10 years ago. By 100k miles any modern engine is done for, it will cost more to upkeep than just getting a new car.

 

Thanks for the link, very informative. I wasn't aware of the recycling effort for LI-ion batteries. The plant in Rochester NY is up and running and I read there is a plant near Phoenix, AR being built.

 

source? from like 15%-80% is not mostly