Maybe some parentally subsidized do nothing hipsters have time to waste in a lounge waiting for their cars to charge, but people that have things to do will just seek other methods of transportation.

I think its not all bad. If gas cars are to become too expensive, and EVs are too inconvenient, many people will just stop driving. There are way too many people driving creating traffic jams, and a lot of them would be better off using public transportation. It's called saving people from themselves.

 

Great post

 

And California is the most successful state by GDP because it embraces capitalism to the fullest. California also has the highest number of billionaires too...sounds very capitalistic to me

 

You also give more than half of your income to the government in the top tax bracket there. Hah. I'm not in said bracket lol I wish but to see Uncle Sam take more than 50% of your income?

It's also called Commiefornia, that ain't for nothing.

 

California's highest braket is 13.3% which is marginally higher than someone making $350k (top 5%) at 11%. The feds will take what they take. Rather pay the california tax vs. living in any other state. Not even close.

 

Lol I guess.

 

How broadly are you applying the "free market"? We enjoy relatively cheap access to gasoline, and without such implicit subsidies, gas would be more expensive. It sounds good to invoke these ideas when you're cherry-picking what is and isn't affected, but that's also counter to the idea of a free market.

And honestly, when looking at my time in the aggregate, refueling the ICE vehicle(s) is an active process which costs more hours over the course of a year. Charging my EV is largely passive, and really only matters during the 1-2 road trips per year, where I already plan and account for downtime. I wonder if people are speaking from experience (and how much) when it comes to the entire charging topic, versus speculating as best they can on what the reality is like. I 100% agree on infrastructure, though, which would include charging from work/home opportunities.

Shifting the entire gasoline paradigm in the US isn't going to be an overnight process, but it will continue to gain momentum:

Source

 

California is a huge state, with beautiful weather, scenery and so many places for recreation. Of course there are places in California that are bad, but that's true for every state. Politicians making their states hostile to business is a whole another problem. Even when it comes to Tesla, on one hand California has bent over backwards to accommodate Elon, but I imagine there is a good reason for Elon to move his business out of California to Texas.

That said, most populous places in every state can barely maintain their existing infrastructure, and I don't see electric charging infrastructure happening in these places any time soon.

 

Your model 3 is a "older" design from 2018 that you are comparing to a engine/transmission design from 2005 or 13 years ago, over 2 gens newer. Again, not a fair comparison when more modern 6 cylinders are putting out 350+hp now and doing 0-60 in well under 5 seconds, some under 4 seconds and they can do it over and over again as well as shine on a track/endurance course. A Rimac is a 2.5 million dollar car, again why are you bringing it up here.

A few 0-60 runs is not very important or impressive, I can gut out a old civic, throw in a huge turbo with other mods, throw on slicks and do 0-60 in under 4 seconds, quarter miles faster then Teslas and Chirons. Big deal, its still a civic. Would anyone if money is no object take a Tesla over Chiron/Veyron/911 GT3? M3's were never 0-60 Kings, they are experience/track cars, that is where they shine and they are much better then Tesla's in that regard.

EV's just do not have significant advantages over modern IC cars when it comes to maintenance, cost to own, reliability, etc. Modern cars don't require much money to own, much maintenance, most of it you can do on your own too cheaply and they don't have to be brought into dealerships. The only real advantage they have is they can be charged/fueled from home, I guess if you don't like going to gas stations for 5 minutes or so to refuel that can be a advantage, other then that they do the same thing as IC cars but with more compromises. There is really nothing about them that warrants forcing them on people or spending a fortune building infrastructure all over to charge them.

I can't understand why you keep pushing EV's and Tesla on a Lexus website in so many threads that have nothing to do with them or keep trying to convince people they are this great revolution when they just aren't, they would sell in much higher numbers if they were. It is not just you, I notice it with a lot of Tesla owners, mainly Tesla 3 owners, it is like a cult trying to convince others to join and in some ways wanting it forced.

 

This is car chat and I'm discussing non Lexus threads. You're literally in an EV thread saying that I'm pushing EVs which is ironic as hell. I participate in the threads i'm interested in and lots discussions on EVs exist. If you don't like EV threads, don't post...simple.

I still own plenty of ICE cars and they require FAR MORE maintenance on the powertrain than my EV which requires absolutely NONE. Nothing. Zilch. If you don't think a stock family sedan that runs 3 second 0-60 and low 11s quarter miles for less than $60k is impressive, thats your call. Its ironically faster than any Lexus that has been produced thus far because its stupid easy to make EVs fast. A RIMAC just set the quarter mile record for a production car today and its an EV. yes it costs $2M as its a hypercar but so does a Chiron.

You can cry till the cows come home about EVs not having any advantages but any reasonable person who does any research will come to the conclusion that EVs have inherent advantages in maintenance costs, refueling costs, and acceleration performance. Its undeniable. You don't see me going around every thread trying to convince everyone that refueling an ICE is just as slow as EV? Whats the point...i know the advantages of ICE and i don't have to have blinders on.

 

Your Tesla 3 is what, less then 3 years old, it is a 2018, of course it doesn't require much/any maintenance, you think that is really impressive? What ICE cars do you own, how old are they, what is all this engine/powertrain maintenance that they need? I don't recall any of the cars that I or my parents own needing any engine maintenance aside from simple oil/filter changes. You are the one who seems to be crying not enough people are jumping on board with EV's or don't agree they are so great and should take over.

You keep bringing up a 0-60 that some EV's can do like the really poorly built goofy looking Tesla 3 with the highest performance package, the majority of buyers clearly don't care about doing a couple real fast 0-60's or else they wouldn't be buying so many 4 cylinder sedans and CUV's and Pickups. Even enthusiasts aren't turning in their 911's, Mustangs, Vette's, AMG's, GTR's, etc for EV's or jumping to EV's in any kind of numbers. ICE cars are/can be very fast too, it is not just EV's.

If so many "reasonable people" came to the conclusion that EV's offer so many advantages over ICE cars then they would sell in much higher numbers and not only make up about 2% of US car sales mostly in California, mostly Tesla's.

 

You can't possibly be unaware the reason EVs sell in relatively small volume currently.

 

Go do some research on high mileage Teslas...they don't ever require powertrain maintenance even at 200k miles. None. In the lifetime of an EV, it will require far less maintenance than an ICE. Your beloved Consumer Reports even verified it.

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybr...-powered-cars/

You claimed EVs don't have a performance advantage when they clearly do. At least you admit it now. I don't care if high end sport car owners don't turn in their cars for EVs..i'm just stating a simple fact that EVs have inherent acceleration advantage. Objectively they do and its undeniable. Don't really need to discuss this further

Finally, EV sales have been growing the fastest out of any auto segment. They've grown 81% in the first quarter of 2021 alone (BEV specifically grew 44%). They are 2% now but I don't have to convince anyone to buy...it will sell itself. I have no doubt. Infrastructure is a hurdle for many and that is slowly being solved.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301271713.html

Nobody is forcing you to like EV. I don't go around every thread trashing ICE because I still like them but EV threads interest me more. I think they are definitely the future and its a far more interesting market segment for me to join the discussion. If they don't interest you, i get it but if you argue something thats not true, I'll call it out.

 

Come on, that is just not true. EV and ICE technology were developed roughly at the same time and it was clear from the start that EV tech is much less complicated, more efficient and just better in every way, except of course energy storage and delivery. Modern ICEs are so convoluted due to all the emissions crap that they are getting chocked up with carbon after just a few years, losing performance and efficiency, and repairing them is a lost cause. In USA we are lucky to have cheap leases, but that's not going to last. When and if the charging issues are resolved, EVs are a no brainer.

 

EV tech is much more complicated when it comes to software/programming, they are not better in every way. I don't know of many ICE cars getting choked up with carbon, the IS250 had a lot of issues with its single DI system in its combustion chamber, some BMW's have had issues but most other cars/makes haven't. My ICE cars run just like new and have no issues with losing performance/efficiency. You buy too many unreliable BMW's if that is your experience.