Originally Posted by UDel

There was a huge price difference between the F Sport and F cars, that is why there is such a huge difference in sales, F Sport was around 6K or less over the base IS, GS, RC. F's were what 30-40K more over base or F sport models in some cases. Once you get into that kind of premium and class buyers expect much more and the F's did not deliver. I think the failure of the F cars boils more down to Lexus does not have the same image as BMW or Mercedes when it comes to high performance and they priced them too high for what you got. I was okay with not offering as much power/performance as most competitors especially if you get a nice NA V8 but it was the too high pricing/premium that was the issue with me and likely most buyers. Since the 4th gen GS did not have a regular V8 option they should have priced the GS-F lower, closer to where someone who really wanted a V8 could get one for not too big of a premium over a 6 cylinder or maybe make a less radical less expensive F model version later without the huge brakes, carbon fiber bits, etc more for buyers who mainly want a V8 in their GS.

Originally Posted by UDel

There was a huge price difference between the F Sport and F cars, that is why there is such a huge difference in sales, F Sport was around 6K or less over the base IS, GS, RC. F's were what 30-40K more over base or F sport models in some cases. Once you get into that kind of premium and class buyers expect much more and the F's did not deliver. I think the failure of the F cars boils more down to Lexus does not have the same image as BMW or Mercedes when it comes to high performance and they priced them too high for what you got. I was okay with not offering as much power/performance as most competitors especially if you get a nice NA V8 but it was the too high pricing/premium that was the issue with me and likely most buyers. Since the 4th gen GS did not have a regular V8 option they should have priced the GS-F lower, closer to where someone who really wanted a V8 could get one for not too big of a premium over a 6 cylinder or maybe make a less radical less expensive F model version later without the huge brakes, carbon fiber bits, etc more for buyers who mainly want a V8 in their GS.

Originally Posted by SC300Es

I think this is why the full F cars are such good CPO vehicles. You get a lot of performance after the original owner takes the hit.

Originally Posted by situman

The problem isnt that Lexus cant do performance right, they just overprice their cars. GSF has no reason being a $90k car when it pretty much uses old hardware through and through.

Originally Posted by natnut

Not anymore starting from the 2021 Lexus IS onwards. Now F-Sports can only be had with the higher power engines. Thus the only IS F-Sport is the IS350 F-Sport, and from the looks of things, the speculated IS500 F-Sport.

Originally Posted by Benoit

I beg to differ. We are just too distracted by shiny plastic and a wannabee luxury presentation, that we can't appreciate quality anymore.
A few posts above, we have the JD powers ranking coming back, with Lexus again on first place (after having been on third for a time). I mean, the price to do thicker plastics, bigger but lighter sway arms, take more time to engineer the components and ship that whole thing from Japan to us.
Those are all costs.

Originally Posted by Benoit

I beg to differ. We are just too distracted by shiny plastic and a wannabee luxury presentation, that we can't appreciate quality anymore.
A few posts above, we have the JD powers ranking coming back, with Lexus again on first place (after having been on third for a time). I mean, the price to do thicker plastics, bigger but lighter sway arms, take more time to engineer the components and ship that whole thing from Japan to us.
Those are all costs.

Originally Posted by EZZ

Does what you say matter to the core buyer? The sales figures say its not what customers care about. If you kept the interior the same as regular GS with slight improvements and added a higher performance turbo V8, would that have done better? Can the Lexus F name even sell a $90k performance car or will buyers just want to go with the M5 or AMG. Maybe they should have a sold a mid $70k GSF with slight improvements and the NA V8. All i know is, I see an M5 a couple times a week while I've seen a GSF twice in the last year.

Originally Posted by situman

Plus no AWD like its competitors. It was just such a poor value and it doesnt even perform up to par with them.

Originally Posted by situman

Plus no AWD like its competitors. It was just such a poor value and it doesnt even perform up to par with them.

Originally Posted by EZZ

Does what you say matter to the core buyer? The sales figures say its not what customers care about. If you kept the interior the same as regular GS with slight improvements and added a higher performance turbo V8, would that have done better? Can the Lexus F name even sell a $90k performance car or will buyers just want to go with the M5 or AMG. Maybe they should have a sold a mid $70k GSF with slight improvements and the NA V8. All i know is, I see an M5 a couple times a week while I've seen a GSF twice in the last year.

Originally Posted by JDR76

My GS350 had an MSRP of $61k. Had I been able to get a GS F at about $75k, I would have stepped up. But the only ones locally were $90k and I wasn't willing to go there. I probably could have/should have been willing to travel and find the right deal, but I wasn't willing at the time.