You do know the MSRP of the RC F was $62.5k, yes? [EDIT: just looked up the 2021 and it's now 65,875, 62,400 was the original MSRP in 2015].

Is the argument here really that if the RC F were instead a V8 swap in an RC350 and cost [$6k] less it would have been a sales success?

 

people complain toyota doesnt care about enthusiasts if they totally stopped V8s, people complain toyota doesnt care about enthusiasts when they come out with a new V8 model

its just those two piece looking brakes like on the GS. They definately should make a big brake option package to make it F like

 

i like how many future tenses you used in your post. that's exactly the problem, how long has it been? sure i want to maintain hope on lexus, but after 2 decades i have also learned to not believe it until i see it with lexus vehicles. it's not exactly a positive or negative statement, they have done something very cool but at the same time they have had a number of big letdowns.

of course calling the is500 as isf will be a suicide, you don't have to state the obvious. i never said calling this car is500 is wrong, i am just surprised they are going this route (and i enjoy v8 over ttv6 any day so this is a positive). but very simply put, where the hell is the f? after how many years now?. so regarding whatever claims and "if" at the end of your post? just stop it, we already know what toyota is capable of. we are talking about what they have done and when.

and your focus on the first point of my post only demonstrate the extremely disappointing truth of my second point on GS

i don't think in anywhere that i said the is500 is not cool. i am just surprised that lexus went this route (putting v8 in). i love big engines and i will pick v8 over ttv6 any day. i do want to see how well the market receive it in coming years, much like how the c43 has been adapted by customers.

i don't agree about the part on "they didn't have to do this". whenever people do or not do something it is for a purpose, otherwise that's called stupidity. of course they didn't have to get into sports, they will be just fine selling NX, RX, and ES all day. it's about what they really want for the brand, a boring grandpa brand? or something more exciting that rivals the competitors? they do this for a reason, they want to salvage something. imho they better have a good follow up on the real isf, otherwise it's a huge problem.

i think overall that's my biggest problem with lexus, i can't seem to see their passion or planning. everything performance on this brand seems to be an afterthought that comes late. if you think M or AMG, you know when they design a new generation, the M and AMG development starts together. but if you look at lexus, ISF was an afterthought. 3is came out and no one seemed to remember there is a F. 4gs came out and again gsf seemed like an afterthought that came after refresh. lc came out and where is lcf outside of countless rumors? rcf was probably the best planned one. it seems to random i can't get a good grasp.

for the price, i wasn't talking about starting price. i always think starting price is stupid. you should know well when looking at "starting price" of european cars. i am talking about the majority of cars people see in the lot. with is350 running 50-55k, i expect 65k for is500. my impression from reading the posts is that people are expecting around 60k to get the is500 which i think is low (would love to see that though).

 

Staying on a healthy and constructive discussion...

The reality = MY2021 IS 350 F Sport RWD w/DHP package and a few options rings in at $55,400 including accessory option packages I left out below.

Go see online live inventory at Lexus Dealers.. With these cars in stock.

How much more does it cost to add in the V8 2UR-GSE + new skin on front clip ??




@4TehNguyen
Putting legit Brembo "Big Brakes" as an option on an IS 500 will already price it into F class.

The GS 350 brakes will do just fine

Joe Z

 

All the performances upgrades are good fodder for trade magazine sales and the enthusiasts but to the average Joe most go unnoticed. How about bringing back the ability to choose your options. Interior & exterior colors, cloth or leather, 4, 6 or 8 cylinder even a diesel. Coupe, 4 door, hardtop convertible. Posi rear, AWD, gear ratios, automatic, manual, Base car, F Sport, Luxury Edition..... That’s how American cars used to be purchased. Then the foreign cars made it simpler for themselves by selling options in packages. (A package, B package ...) If you wanted a specific option you had to buy the whole package. Maybe with the new automated systems and robotics they can start producing special orders again. Imagine having the ability to order any option offered or that you can afford and being able to build your 1 of 1 dream car.

 

Still heading that way lol

 

Still C8 Corvette money. I can't imagine anybody that cares about performance at all choosing this over a C8. C8 is still way above MSRP, but that will change.

 

I don't know why you are comparing it to a 2 door, mid-engine sports car. A lot of cars in the price range are much faster than the IS500. Its supposed to be a great daily with good power with super reliability, not a dedicated performance platform.

 

I’m on board with some personalization but this is a slippery slope towards nickel and diming customers for each item. The more bespoke a car becomes the higher the price.

for a daily use car like this is500, package pricing seems best.

 

with that mindset why are people buying a M3/M4? C63? I am sure I can list a lot more. Anybody that cares about performance like you said wouldn't choose a M3 /M4, C63 AMG, etc over a C8....but people do.

 

You're exactly right about the higher price. That's why high option classic Vettes go for huge money at auctions BC Chevy offered many options a' la cart driving the price out of reach of the average working man's pay grade. Mopar on the other hand offered less options so most of their Hot Rods (GTX, Road Runner, Cuda...) came with the goodies. (disc brakes, posi rears, 4 barrel ...) What are options we're looking for? Bembro, Blistein, Borla .... And if they're reasonable priced more buyers will choose them and if these options really sweeten the car the leftover overs will go to the parts department and hopefully offset Lexus' bottom line and take a bite out of the after market money.

 

lexus has never been known for having individual options here in the US?

 

Not to mention that a la carte options actually hurt resale value, since there's less consistency in desirable features in used models to choose from.

 

When I looked at a RC-F at the dealership it was around 67K with whatever options it had which I immediately thought was way too expensive, the RC350 next to it was around 46K and I thought that was even kind of pricey for what you get, that is around a 20K premium over a RC350 for mainly the V8 which is what most enthusiasts want the most and why it didn't sell. Saving around or even over 10K compared to a RC F would be a huge deal, my price of around 55K(or even lower) is more the starting point and not going over 60K even with options.

Do I think many more people would have bought a V8 RC F sport if they could get it at around 55K as opposed to in the 62-68K+ range for the F, yes I do, saving 7-10K is still huge for many buyers and once you get over 60K there are a lot more interesting options new and used.

 

One is a two door full sports car, other is a 4 door with a decent sized trunk that can haul more people and be taken on long trips, very different cars, the New Corvette you want optionally is more around 80K.