I am not sure if you feel me, but I think the new IS will be a car that is similar in style to the UX inside and out. The target is not the United States, it will be China...I also think this is the last dance for Lexus in this type of segment.....which is why it supposed to be "reworked" and not all new... The 3 series does not sell anywhere near what it once sold in the 5-10 years ago....all that said, down the road, a future FCEV or EV in that that is RWD based in the price point of a Tesla 3, I could definitely see happening. Lexus was born without the IS segment, they can live on without it as well...your thoughts Frog?

 

^
I could see Lexus get rid of RWD completely.
IS and RC are doing minimal #s in sales.

RC should have had a Convertible and GrandCoupe version.
Imagine if it got the 400hp V6tt from LS500 - that would have been a statement and worthy competition especially to the new ugly 4series. This should be a no-brainer.

The more models you have - the better your chances of spreading your costs for new engines and other updates.

Lexus let their products age and then ask why sales suck - well they sold well in first few years but then grew stale as competitors continue to bring new exciting products.

 

I think you are probably right Jill. It's a temporary stopgap to get them to the next hybrid or full electric...and to see what changes in emission standards. They are behind on electrics, but ahead on hybrids (although the RX Hybrid we tried was disappointing in mpg). I've read lately that Mercedes AMG and Porsche say that because of EU emission standards several engines will be going away. It's an interesting time that's for sure! Yet, some think it will be a long time until we all go fully electric. Full autonomous driving may take longer to fully implement safely as well. My brother works in that field along with vehicle to vehicle communication. The writing maybe on the wall for these gasoline luxury cars, and especially the naturally aspirated Performance variants. The time to buy one and enjoy it if that's your thing is right now. The GS I just purchased is an older design...I ignored it for a while. It lacks Carplay and over the air updates like the BMW I had and LC. But the car is so good, I don't miss those things. So even though the new IS may use some old mixed with some new. I hold out hope it maybe a great car. I heard it may have a LS style to it. Automakers are cost cutting now. Audi and BMW moving their car production on some vehicles to Mexico. So if the refreshed IS uses some older bits, I'm still very interested to experience it. Maybe just because a 2002 IS 300 was my first Lexus.

 

The UX has been a sales disappointment for Lexus, so not sure taking the IS or anything else down that road makes much sense. Not everything is about China.

Every car doesn't have to be a sales juggernaut either. The point of having lower cost higher selling models within a luxury nameplate is so you can also build truly desirable higher end cars that don't have to sell in huge numbers. IMO you're looking at Lexus strategy the way one looks at economy cars. In order for something to be a luxury good, it has to have a desirability factor beyond what is practical.

If they had great cars like the IS, a small, midsized, and full-sized RWD based GA-L platform crossovers, good sedans built on that architecture and performance models, then enthusiasts wouldn't have such an issue with the UXs, NXs, etc. If BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Genesis can do this, so can Lexus.

No excuse for this IS not to be an all new car on the GA-L Platform IMO.

 

No one seems to understanding what Lexus is doing or thinking. They neglect pretty much everything in their line up except for the ES, and only because it is new. Even the RX pales in comparison to the new Highlander and Venza, at least feature and technology wise. The GX makes up about 10% of their volume and safe to say their 4th best selling model but it is neglected. Perhaps the LF1 is the reset button for Lexus, but even that is coming out 2yrs late.

 

FThanks for having a nice discussion.

If I remember correctly, the RXh uses a hybrid system that was supposed to give V8 power, but V6 fuel economy. Think GS430/GS450h at the time. Lexus 4.7V8 at the time in the GX would have been the alternative.

GS is just not my cup of tea..but happy you love it.

Very overrated...I rarely if ever use it in the new Avalon.



And that is just it...you have to think of what the Lexus brand positioning is for the small rwd segment...it is not great...it will very hard to supplant C class or 3 series BMWs as the market contracts....with that, BMW has an even smaller 2 series four door and Mercedes is also in there

The irony of some of the FWD hate is that BMW has a sedan now that is FWD and Mercedes has TWO (might be wrong)....where Lexus just has the ES....and the Lexus ES starts at more money than both.


Frog, with all the hate about old platforms etc, I leave you with what the CEO of Toyota said today:

"The coronavirus-caused crisis “exceeds the Lehman shock,” said Toyoda,

“We are different today from what we were during the financial crisis.”

I have been saying forever (and getting rude comments for it) that Toyota purposely delayed all of their more expensive platforms on purpose as Toyota was waiting for an economic downturn..(never did I say pandemic)...once the bottom is hit, Toyota can more accurately make cars for the post-downturn (now pandemic) world.

 

Market clearly demands CarPlay.

I wont buy another vehicle without it. I hate that the Pacifica doesn't have it.

No issue with FWD options as long as the proper RWD and upmarket options are there, which BMW and Mercedes have in spades. Literally a dozen options.

 

Why are we still talking about China? From all signs so far, the new IS won't be sold in China. Its trademark for the 2021 model year has yet to even be registered.

Who is this IS even designed for?

 

what was their excuse for delaying the LS.
Why did they delay the LC-F which was already planned to be launched in 2020....now its pushed back to another 2-3yrs.

They brought the GSF - 4 years after the GS came out....

Its just a pattern of inconsistency and lack of commitment.

 

Totally, and to me Toyoda is a man full of inconsistency, he wants "no more boring cars" and he wants "cars that are driver focused" but then he axes or fails to invest in the cars that achieve those goals (IS, GS, GA-L crossovers), instead choosing to make strange sport versions of cars where that makes no sense (see TRD Camry and Avalon, Rav4, sporty-fling the LS) and fails to invest in new powertrains that bring driving excitement back to the brand (why is the excellent 3.5TT thats been in the LS since late 2017 in absolutely nothing else 3 years later?).

One of the most confusing figures in the car world IMO. Where I thought the brand would be when Toyoda first came on the scene and we got the 4GS and 3IS and then the LC came to fruition and where we are now and where we seem to be going could not be more different.

 

I thought when he allowed the Supra to be a rebadged BMW, i lost total respect for the guy. I actually thought he was going to be great for the brand but he has zero vision.

 

So does that mean they somehow recouped those already invested funds incurred by RD for those expensive now delayed platforms? How does that exactly work, for instance on the now cancelled Lexus 5th Gen GS project which has morphed into the 2nd gen Toyota Mirai?

Same thing is the cloud of doubt that surronds the IS with the naysayers. Is this going to be ground up project that has been in the secret F lab to offer a breath of fresh air that almost even TGNA based bestowed upon their respective nameplates (heck even the camry has some added dynamics with its new TGNA-K) or are we getting a very very very facelifted 3rd gen is?

The reveal will answer all lol

 

This guy doesn't care about Lexus or maybe he does but he for sure doesn't understand it or have time for it. His passion is Toyota and as long as he is in the bed with bean counters so Toyota stays in deep black he gets what he wants - sporty rides.

 

Very interesting Jill! Toyota does not lack the financial ability or expertise to compete. Their planning is not like everyone else. Now would have been a terrible time to be coming out with multiple new platforms and multiple variants of the same vehicle...like coupe, sedan, wagon, multiple levels of performance brands. And tons of individual options. Those all cost a lot of money. Porsche was launching or about to launch all kinds of new variants, 718 GT4, Cayenne Coupe, Taycan Sport Turismo, 911 Turbo etc. The Cayenne Coupe is in plenty of supply at my local dealer. They've called me to see if I am interested. A few months ago they had very few Cayennes of any kind. CNBC has an article out today saying German car companies face a lot of challenges. They were hoping for more stimulus measures to offer incentives to purchase new cars. In my opinion, right now companies are trying to build as much cash as possible to make it through this. This would explain the new IS, if the rumors are true. It's certainly a good time to be in a good financial position during a crisis. Dow jones dropped 1861 points today. Things have changed.

 

One more time