2021 Mercedes S-Class (W223)
Lexus Test Driver
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It's not truly "instant" if it's a turbo, and doesn't everyone remember back before turbos "Car X makes 90% of maximum torque at xxxx (low) RPM"?.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Knoxville, TN
The LS 430 is a terrible example to use against EV's. It's loaded with sound deadening and other NVH-reducing engineering to make sure you don't feel the vibrations of the V8 or hear much of it like you would in a muscle car. The power delivery is smooth, but an EV is not only smoother, it's also instantaneous. And it's quieter too.
You're talking about turbo lag, which is a completely different topic. It can't be disputed that a turbo engine will have more torque in the lower rev range than any naturally aspirated engine which needs to be revved out. And I don't know of many luxury car owner that sees revving their engine out as a priority.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: ------
Weren't you the one that brought up the hybrid GS when I mentioned EVs? Establish some consistency, please. 
And no, I was not wrong. Read the article carefully, there's two M5's in the works. A plug-in hybrid, in addition to the more powerful pure battery EV version.
Those numbers are straight from the manufacturers, but you're free to claim that you know better than them. And who mentioned anything about reliability and sound? I said performance. Don't move goalposts.
Sure, ignore the parts that aren't convenient to your narrative.
And no, I was not wrong. Read the article carefully, there's two M5's in the works. A plug-in hybrid, in addition to the more powerful pure battery EV version.
Those numbers are straight from the manufacturers, but you're free to claim that you know better than them. And who mentioned anything about reliability and sound? I said performance. Don't move goalposts.
Sure, ignore the parts that aren't convenient to your narrative.
I care about real world tests and multiple tests show the GS350 is quicker then German 4 cyl turbo's in most cases in similar mid sized cars. I am talking about everything when it comes to V6 vs 4cyl t.
Lexus Test Driver
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And like it or not, the next generation of ultra-performance vehicle variants like the M5 will be pure electric.
Try addressing the actual argument instead of making up fake ones so you can pretend that you know what you're talking about.
Lexus Test Driver
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This is in stark contrast to BEV powertrains, which have far less moving parts and literally zero vibration and noise, so there's less of a need for things like vibration dampers and sound deadening material along the hood.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: CA
The V8 had various vibration dampers built into it. V8s are not inherently smooth engines- that's why the LS400 was such a big deal when it was launched in the late 80s, because prior to that, V8s were loud and rattling like the engines being compared to the LS in that "glass of water on the engine" Top Gear video you're referring to.
This is in stark contrast to BEV powertrains, which have far less moving parts and literally zero vibration and noise, so there's less of a need for things like vibration dampers and sound deadening material along the hood.
This is in stark contrast to BEV powertrains, which have far less moving parts and literally zero vibration and noise, so there's less of a need for things like vibration dampers and sound deadening material along the hood.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Knoxville, TN
The V8 had various vibration dampers built into it. V8s are not inherently smooth engines- that's why the LS400 was such a big deal when it was launched in the late 80s, because prior to that, V8s were loud and rattling like the engines being compared to the LS in that "glass of water on the engine" Top Gear video you're referring to.
While you're correct that V8s aren't inherently smooth engines like V12s, there were plenty of smooth V8s before 1990. The LS engine was just that ridiculously smooth. And refined.
Lexus Test Driver
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Vibration dampers, Schmibration dampers. The actual UZ V8 is glass smooth, by design. UZ V8 isn't legendary, the smoothness, because of vibration dampers and motor mounts.
While you're correct that V8s aren't inherently smooth engines like V12s, there were plenty of smooth V8s before 1990. The LS engine was just that ridiculously smooth. And refined.
While you're correct that V8s aren't inherently smooth engines like V12s, there were plenty of smooth V8s before 1990. The LS engine was just that ridiculously smooth. And refined.
Sure, but I like the sounds a V8 makes. I don't have any use for a BEV. I'm still polluting the environment by charging it, and I don't want a car that will run out of juice and leave me stranded.
As for range, that's only going to get better as battery tech becomes more sophisticated. But that has nothing to do with the inherent smoothness of a BEV powertrain setup.
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Lexus Test Driver
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No ICE can remotely compare to an EV from a NVH perspective. Its like riding on air...very eerie but its so quiet in there that you hear every single rattle if there is any. I can't imagine what a LS500 or S Class would feel like as an EV...complete silence even on the highway. The EV also has the advantage of throttle response. Even the best NA V8s feel laggy compared to EVs with instantaneous response. Just a matter of time until these new EVs are introduced.
Lexus Champion
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From: Knoxville, TN
Yes, it's "smooth by design" because it was designed to have various vibration dampers and isolators built into it. All modern engines are, which is why we can tolerate flawed setups like V6's over the more balanced inline 6. But regardless of whether you pick a LS V8, a V12, or an inline 6, none of them come close to a BEV in smoothness and NVH and power delivery.
Valid points. But who buys a V8 luxury barge to hear the engine, when what they want is an isolated quiet ride? If the sound of a V8 was a priority, there wouldn't be so much NVH material around the engine bay or cabin.
As for range, that's only going to get better as battery tech becomes more sophisticated. But that has nothing to do with the inherent smoothness of a BEV powertrain setup.
Valid points. But who buys a V8 luxury barge to hear the engine, when what they want is an isolated quiet ride? If the sound of a V8 was a priority, there wouldn't be so much NVH material around the engine bay or cabin.
As for range, that's only going to get better as battery tech becomes more sophisticated. But that has nothing to do with the inherent smoothness of a BEV powertrain setup.
Sounds like you are a huge BEV fan, I'm personally not. I love the soothing purr the engine makes in my car. I'm never going to agree that electric is better than ICE. You're talking to a guy who wants physical throttle cables brought back into cars, and whose next vehicle will be a 5.7L V8 that gets 12MPG.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
An electric powertrain in a car like the S Class or the LS would really be ideal. There would be nothing not to like about that...
I think you will see an electric S Class at some point in this generation.
I think you will see an electric S Class at some point in this generation.
Lexus Test Driver
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: ON/NY
Vibration dampers, Schmibration dampers. The actual UZ V8 is glass smooth, by design. UZ V8 isn't legendary, the smoothness, because of vibration dampers and motor mounts.
While you're correct that V8s aren't inherently smooth engines like V12s, there were plenty of smooth V8s before 1990. The LS engine was just that ridiculously smooth. And refined.
Sure, but I like the sounds a V8 makes. I don't have any use for a BEV. I'm still polluting the environment by charging it, and I don't want a car that will run out of juice and leave me stranded.
While you're correct that V8s aren't inherently smooth engines like V12s, there were plenty of smooth V8s before 1990. The LS engine was just that ridiculously smooth. And refined.
Sure, but I like the sounds a V8 makes. I don't have any use for a BEV. I'm still polluting the environment by charging it, and I don't want a car that will run out of juice and leave me stranded.
