Japanese vs German
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Racer
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From: WA
Japanese vs German
Why do people buy German cars? I mean, I get they CAN be fun to drive but are total hell to fix when something goes wrong. If someone desires more aggressive driving, wouldn't they be happy with like a GS 350 F sport turned on Sport + mode and special tires? This car, unlike a BMW or Audi, would actually run past 90k mile without becoming a money pit.
I just don't get it. Do people not value their money?
I just don't get it. Do people not value their money?
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2016
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From: CA
Are you really comparing a GS 350 F sport? Not even an F but an F Sport? LOL. There is nothing in the Lexus Line up that is affordable that can compete performance wise with most of their vehicles. Even a GS F/RC F will get smoked by the new 340iM, that is why. Don't even mention C63 AMG's, RS or M cars. The maintenance issues are mainly a thing of the past. Any older car will run into issues. You're not going to have problems with a German car until you start getting close to 100K miles and by then most people get a new car anyway. Even Lexus's run into issues. Yes they can cost more for maintenance but it's not that much different than what you pay at the Lexus Dealership.
Lexus Champion
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I don't think you can boil down whether or not a car will provide a good ownership experience strictly on what things will be like at the 90k mile mark. That's one important area to many drivers but there's a lot more to it.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Southeastern PA
Why do people buy German cars? I mean, I get they CAN be fun to drive but are total hell to fix when something goes wrong. If someone desires more aggressive driving, wouldn't they be happy with like a GS 350 F sport turned on Sport + mode and special tires? This car, unlike a BMW or Audi, would actually run past 90k mile without becoming a money pit.
I just don't get it. Do people not value their money?
I just don't get it. Do people not value their money?
I have 65K miles on my BMW 328--my first German car; no more problems or issues than I had for my IS250. If something goes wrong, will it be materially more expensive than on a Lexus GS (your example)? I find it hard to believe.
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For one, BMWs are not all blowing up past 90,000 miles. I have several friends with stock and modified 335i and 535i that are beyond the 120,000 mile mark and have had no more issues than I'd expect from a similar Japanese car.
For two, BMWs and Audis are much more solid of cars than a Lexus or Acura. The level of construction is quite overkill and when you keep up with their maintenance, even a 3 or 5 series will be far more rattle-free than a similar mileage ES350 or GS350. About the only Lexus that belies this expectation is the LS430. Most ES350s and GS350s in the 150k+ range have their fair share of rattles.
For three, a BMW is head and shoulders above any F or F-sport model car. What you're saying is like saying Folgers coffee is the same as Illy coffee because they're both brown and are called coffee. A 340i or 440i with the sport package will walk all over an IS350 F-sport in terms of acceleration, feeling, and lateral grip. Same for the M340i, it will curb stomp the poor IS350.
For four, BMWs have vastly superior technology. 2011 model BMWs have options that 2020 Lexus models don't have. Show me the top-down view option and front-bumper cameras that BMWs have had for multiple years now, in an IS or GS. Also, the lane keep and radar cruise are a joke compared to what was in BMWs for the past several years. They're just now getting lane-centering in Lexus models.
For five, the upper echelon BMWs and Mercedes have nicer interiors than Lexus.
For six, reliability isn't a concern for people when you lease.
And please don't bring up the F-models, those are absolutely laughable compared to the M and AMG cars. If you want to get bus-lengthed because you wanted reliability, the GSF or RCF is just for you.
Basically, Lexus is an amazing brand to buy for people like me that use it as a tool and want it to last without doing much more than changing oil and tires. But, I'd choose BMW or Audi easily if I wanted a more involved, sporty car. The RC350 and IS350 are extremely boring cars that don't have the feel that a BMW does.
For two, BMWs and Audis are much more solid of cars than a Lexus or Acura. The level of construction is quite overkill and when you keep up with their maintenance, even a 3 or 5 series will be far more rattle-free than a similar mileage ES350 or GS350. About the only Lexus that belies this expectation is the LS430. Most ES350s and GS350s in the 150k+ range have their fair share of rattles.
For three, a BMW is head and shoulders above any F or F-sport model car. What you're saying is like saying Folgers coffee is the same as Illy coffee because they're both brown and are called coffee. A 340i or 440i with the sport package will walk all over an IS350 F-sport in terms of acceleration, feeling, and lateral grip. Same for the M340i, it will curb stomp the poor IS350.
For four, BMWs have vastly superior technology. 2011 model BMWs have options that 2020 Lexus models don't have. Show me the top-down view option and front-bumper cameras that BMWs have had for multiple years now, in an IS or GS. Also, the lane keep and radar cruise are a joke compared to what was in BMWs for the past several years. They're just now getting lane-centering in Lexus models.
For five, the upper echelon BMWs and Mercedes have nicer interiors than Lexus.
For six, reliability isn't a concern for people when you lease.
And please don't bring up the F-models, those are absolutely laughable compared to the M and AMG cars. If you want to get bus-lengthed because you wanted reliability, the GSF or RCF is just for you.
Basically, Lexus is an amazing brand to buy for people like me that use it as a tool and want it to last without doing much more than changing oil and tires. But, I'd choose BMW or Audi easily if I wanted a more involved, sporty car. The RC350 and IS350 are extremely boring cars that don't have the feel that a BMW does.
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12 cylinder engines
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So your argument for Lexus refinement is to use a commercial that's now 30 years old? If it was even real to begin with? And who's to say a 1989 MB or BMW would not have done the same thing? Did anyone recreate the test with any other car to see how much "better" Lexus refinement was?
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Why do people buy German cars? I mean, I get they CAN be fun to drive but are total hell to fix when something goes wrong. If someone desires more aggressive driving, wouldn't they be happy with like a GS 350 F sport turned on Sport + mode and special tires? This car, unlike a BMW or Audi, would actually run past 90k mile without becoming a money pit.
I just don't get it. Do people not value their money?
I just don't get it. Do people not value their money?
because they like them.
maybe, maybe not.
that is not always true.
sorry you don't get it, but this thread is going nowhere.
I mean, I get they CAN be fun to drive but are total hell to fix when something goes wrong. If someone desires more aggressive driving, wouldn't they be happy with like a GS 350 F sport turned on Sport + mode and special tires?
This car, unlike a BMW or Audi, would actually run past 90k mile without becoming a money pit.
I just don't get it. Do people not value their money?
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