Would you agree burning one quart of oil in 500 miles and having spark plugs coated in oil is not normal?

 

No... It absolutely isn't.

 

I would agree that it is normal to burn some oil, a quart at 500miles is not within spec (thus not normal) and spark plugs covered in oil are likely the result of a defect

Here is the official Lexus spec on the Ls460

 

So, "yes". Thank you.

 

I never said it was normal to burn oil at a quart at 500miles. Nor did I ever say it was normal to have a defect that has the spark plugs covered in oil. You seem to think I said that? An engine burning some oil is perfectly with in spec (whatever that spec might be). A certain Lexus that burns 1qrt at 600miles depending on circumstances might be normal, while another Lexus might be not.

 

I think that the tone of what you were saying was that there is no issue caused by these additional technologies in modern vehicles vs older vehicles and that you came across as dismissive of what I was saying about how a fair number of high mileage LS460s use oil abnormally.

The reason why DI causes this issue is what Moisture posted above. If you want to read more:

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/art...rgers-and-gdi/


The challenge here is the implementation of these technologies coupled with the EXTENSION of oil change intervals and REDUCTION in viscosity per factory specs, which is counter intuitive. The reason for these extensions are not because its healthier for the engine, its because of pressures mounted by competitors and to meet fuel economy standards. This is why my mechanic suggested I ignore Lexus' 10k OCI and do 5k oil changes.

The LS430 held about 4.5 quarts of oil. The LS460 holds over 9 quarts of oil. Fuel dilution due to direct injection is why.

 

Bringing it back to the topic, this means that modern Lexus cars are going to be more likely to have high oil consumption as they age than older Lexus cars, which could cause owners to trade them prematurely. This may give the picture that Lexus quality is slipping, but its not that, its that this technology has a propensity to cause increased oil consumption in general.

 

It's very counter intuitive indeed. There are more reasons to it than just meeting standards set by competitors.

All in all, makes it even more imperative that you use a good oil. You're practically eliminating all inherit issues associated with the application of DI by doing so.

If you are experiencing sudden oil consumption at higher mileage, that's a problem. I doubt it has much to do with DI. It could be the PCV valve for example.

For example, my Mazda 6 does not consume a drop of oil in between changes, even back when it had 0w20 in it. I use 5w40 now. Some users experience some consumption with 0w20, others don't. That says to me, that it has a lot to do with not only the oil you are using, but how the engine was broken in when new. DI obviously increases the demands of the engines oil supply, so to recommend 10k oil changes with 0w20, is disaster waiting to happen. That is likely another reason why oil consumption may occur, not due to DI itself.

You don't use 0w20, you change your oil every 5 k, and you don't experience any oil consumption, correct? what is your mileage?

 

In regards to the comments about Mobil 1 - Many users noticed increased oil consumption before switching to a different brand. Another owner with a BMW M3 noticed this strange, thick milky substance underneath his oil cap when using Mobil 1. As soon as he switched oil brands, it never came back.

Mobil 1 has failed multiple shear tests.

 

You’re missing the point. The point is direct injection engines have more of a tendency to use oil at high mileage. That’s a fact. The LS460 has a propensity to use oil at high mileages where older LS models did not. Other Toyota vehicles that have this same engine without DI don’t report the same oil use problems. When the LS460 first came out in 2007 it specified 5W30 oil and 5k OCIs, same as previous non DI LS models, so it’s not longer change intervals or low viscosity oil. It’s the direct injection.

The oil you use will help with some issues, but not the inherent damage caused by the fuel blowing by the rings. The fact that some use oil and some don’t is just a factor Of the different lives lived by different engines. How often was oil changed, what oil was used, how hard was each engine run, etc. it may be that engines with no oil consumption at 150k get it at 225k...but the inherent issue still exists.

This is just an example of a design change that could make it appear that Lexus vehicles have slipped in quality.

As for me I run 0W20 TGMO and change the oil every 5k. I use no oil but my car only has 35k miles on it.

 

Wow, I had no idea. Double the oil with only .3 more displacement. How much are oil changes at the dealer? I paid $60 something a month ago. I never go to Lexus anymore but I wanted an alignment that this construction company was going to pay for due to them chopping up the roads near my house so I figured might as well go to dealer, get a free car wash out of it lol.

 

Not at all supposed to be dismissive. Unfortunate you thought that. . I just find that there are misconceptions about oil consumption. The original LS from 1990 goes on about fuel consumption, it is all dependent on how it is driven. It also goes on about moisture and how fuel can get into the oil and high speeds hides dilution. Flat out says, it is normal to consume oil. Interesting stuff.

Lexus manuals flat out say that new engines consume more oil.

On the other hand, the LFA flat out tells the owner that 1 qrt per 600miles is acceptable, and this is using 5W 50.

As for DI, causing high oil consumption, perhaps. But Lexus cars are now more performance oriented and a 380hp likely will burn some oil, no different than the original LS that says it would burn oil too.

I think you are correct that consumers may think quality is down because of oil use, but that is not the case as it is normal.


Original LS400. 1990

 

I don't use the dealer anymore but I just checked my dealer's schedule service link which lists prices (pretty cool) and they say an oil change for my LS460 is $142.62

Totally, they know the ramification of DI. Thats why they doubled the capacity of the oil sump for the 1UR engine over the UZ engines. Also note the spark plug replacement interval for the UR engine is 60k miles, for the UZ engine it was 120k miles. Why? Because of the additional wear on the plugs due to direct injection.

Its not perhaps, its a fact. DI engines use more oil than port injected engines, thats a fact.

Well, in some instances its normal. Using a quart of oil every 500 miles isn't normal. Adding oil once a month to an older car when it never used to use oil and when other previous cars you had from the same manufacturer never needed it when they too were high mileage doesnt feel normal, even if it is...which leads to the perception that the car isnt as reliable or well made.

You can totally understand how someone who had an LS400 or LS430 with 180,000 miles and they never had to add oil, who trades for an LS460 and then when it has 180,000 miles on it they have to add a quart of oil a month they perceive that as being a quality difference.

There are a good many LS460 owners that really do have excessive oil consumption. If you look around thats not an uncommon thing with Toyota's DI engines.

 

ok folks, let's stop this being ANOTHER thread on oil types, consumption... the topic is "is lexus quality declining?"

 

Holy Moly! Maybe that could be inflated bc of your location--the Beverly Hills Lexus dealer wanted $100 for an oil change on my 430 when we lived out there.