Is Lexus quality declining?
Lexus Fanatic
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The OP's question is "has Lexus quality declined" and the answer is yes in some ways, but not in other ways and the reason you see more issues posted and complaints is largely due to the cars being more complex rather than being lower quality"
Modern cars just have a lot more stuff to go wrong, doesnt mean they aren't as high quality.
Modern cars just have a lot more stuff to go wrong, doesnt mean they aren't as high quality.
DI has not been a widespread issue for Toyota, no bad reputation from it either.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Maryland
When a buyer buys a new vehicle, whether they lease it or buy it, they want certain things out of it compared with its competitors. One of those things is power. A big flagship sedan with a NA V8 making 290 hp is not competitive today, even if the net result is a simple motor that will be very reliable.
Power is adequate, even quite good in the LS430, but remember the LS500 is 800 lbs heavier than an LS430. No joke. LS430 curb weight is 3,990, LS500 RWD is 4,740. AWD LS500? 5,000 lbs. No buyer is going to be satisfied with the performance out of that car with a 290hp NA V8.
Whether the person buys or leases the car doesnt change that equation.
Lexus Champion
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From: Knoxville, TN
And to keep this OT, the LS430 was the pinnacle of Lexus quality. That's another reason it's special to me and I'll never get rid of it. We barely put any mileage on our cars anyway. We've had the IS350 for 4 years now and have only put 22k miles on it.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: ON/NY
Another example, LS460s have a common issue with their high pressure brake actuator, a part that didnt exist on the LS430 or LS400. Lexus extended the warranty on this part to 150k miles. Its a $4,000 job. Mine started exhibiting signs of actuator failure as early as 5k miles and next week goes in for replacement at 35k miles. My other Lexus vehicles only had brake pads and rotors and fluid replacements over 100, 150, 200k miles...and this one has this different system which has benefits but also creates a failure point which causes issues and expense.
Wrong. The LS460 did not start specifying 0W20 oil until 2014. It specified 5W30 oil from 2007-2013 just like all Lexus products. For LS460 vehicles that are high mileage today, they were specified the same oil as the LS430 and the LS400, and in fact Lexus specified SHORTER oil change intervals at 5k where it was 7.5K. And again, the same engine without DI specifies the same oils and you don't see oil consumption.
Google "Direct Injection Oil Consumption" and read.
Again, Google "Direct Injection Oil Consumption" and read.
Actually, engines do not "burn oil" as a normal matter of course. I have had numerous cars well over 150k miles and I have never owned one that consumed ANY oil. My LS460s new consume NO oil.
Not sure what the point of this is. I post a ton in the LS460 forum as I've owned two, I've seen this thread. Here are links to 6 threads in there discussing high oil consumption:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sea...rchid=21725788
But some oil burn when older isn't "unusual", but in the case of these LS460s some are burning a quart every 500 miles and coating injectors with oil, thats not normal.
It depends on what you want. You have 100 less HP than me and no better fuel economy.
People just arent satisfied with sub 300 HP V8s today, so technology has to step in to give consumers what they want. Technology adds complexity and there are tradeoffs.
As I said before, I will concede that the LS430 is in several ways a better built car, but I would never want to drive one today vs my LS460. If the LS500 had the same space and ride dynamics that the LS has been known for, I would drive that and would never trade back to an LS460. There are many benefits newer cars have which outweigh the incremental things that may have been better done in the past.
Wrong. The LS460 did not start specifying 0W20 oil until 2014. It specified 5W30 oil from 2007-2013 just like all Lexus products. For LS460 vehicles that are high mileage today, they were specified the same oil as the LS430 and the LS400, and in fact Lexus specified SHORTER oil change intervals at 5k where it was 7.5K. And again, the same engine without DI specifies the same oils and you don't see oil consumption.
Google "Direct Injection Oil Consumption" and read.
Again, Google "Direct Injection Oil Consumption" and read.
Actually, engines do not "burn oil" as a normal matter of course. I have had numerous cars well over 150k miles and I have never owned one that consumed ANY oil. My LS460s new consume NO oil.
Not sure what the point of this is. I post a ton in the LS460 forum as I've owned two, I've seen this thread. Here are links to 6 threads in there discussing high oil consumption:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sea...rchid=21725788
But some oil burn when older isn't "unusual", but in the case of these LS460s some are burning a quart every 500 miles and coating injectors with oil, thats not normal.
It depends on what you want. You have 100 less HP than me and no better fuel economy.
People just arent satisfied with sub 300 HP V8s today, so technology has to step in to give consumers what they want. Technology adds complexity and there are tradeoffs.
As I said before, I will concede that the LS430 is in several ways a better built car, but I would never want to drive one today vs my LS460. If the LS500 had the same space and ride dynamics that the LS has been known for, I would drive that and would never trade back to an LS460. There are many benefits newer cars have which outweigh the incremental things that may have been better done in the past.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bel...%3fhs_amp=true
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
This is not true. You also have the Internet today which you did not have when the Ls400 started, so you are just reading about issues you never knew about in 1990. Modern cars have eliminated many things that can go wrong as well, power steering is better today, so is the lack of metal gas tank that will rust, no more keys that need cylinders to operate in the steering column. LS400 will have loads of problems at 29th year. It’s a wash
DI has not been a widespread issue for Toyota, no bad reputation from it either.
DI has not been a widespread issue for Toyota, no bad reputation from it either.
A rusty gas tank is not the same sort of problem as a $4,000 high pressure brake actuator, or a total engine rebuild because of wear caused by direct injection. A new gas tank is $300. Whens the last time you had a car that had a key ignition cylinder go bad? Nowadays if you loose both smart keys its a $1,500 ECU replacement. When you add a turbocharger or a supercharger, well thats another entire component that can fail. Cars are more complicated, and complication increases risk for failure.
DI is not a "problem" its just there are inherent drawbacks to that technology in general, its not a unique thing for Toyota/Lexus.
It is a fact that engines burn oil. A fact! Higher performance will also burn more oil. There is a difference between burning engine oil which is consider normal, and burning oil that is excessive
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bel...%3fhs_amp=true
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bel...%3fhs_amp=true
In any event, your link says a quart of oil every 1,500 miles is acceptable. Some LS460 owners with high mileage are burning 3 quarts of oil in 1,500 miles.
Last edited by SW17LS; Dec 15, 2019 at 10:30 AM.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: ON/NY
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Dec 15, 2019 at 10:33 AM.
Lead Lap
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From: Ontario
@SW17LS could be attributed to older design DI then. My 2015 Mazda 6 has zero issues related to DI of any kind. I have 100k miles on mine but there are owners with 200, even 300k on theirs. Never had to take apart the intake manifold to clean the ports or anything.
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: ON/NY
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Maryland
@SW17LS could be attributed to older design DI then. My 2015 Mazda 6 has zero issues related to DI of any kind. I have 100k miles on mine but there are owners with 200, even 300k on theirs. Never had to take apart the intake manifold to clean the ports or anything.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Knoxville, TN
Like I said, many automakers say oil consumption is normal....not sure if that's really true or they're saving face.
C&D had a long term test on a Mustang with the flat-plane V8 (I think?) and they had to add oil all the time to where they complained a lot about it.
I personally wouldn't want a vehicle consuming oil.
C&D had a long term test on a Mustang with the flat-plane V8 (I think?) and they had to add oil all the time to where they complained a lot about it.
I personally wouldn't want a vehicle consuming oil.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Maryland
Your LS460 actually burned oil when you first got it. Toyota tells you straight up that it would burn oil during the break in.
When you make a statement like "all engines burn oil" the result of that statement is that you accept any oil consumption is normal, and thats not true. Most vehicle owners don't have to add oil to their engines on a routine basis. For these LS460 owners their low oil warnings routinely come on.
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2019
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From: Ontario
And you may never have any issues. Many people have no issues. The addition of port injectors to vehicles with direct injection is designed to help solve some of those issues, but it doesnt solve all of them (the LS460 has direct and port injection BTW). If you look in those LS460 threads many members have no oil consumption. I'm just saying that the technology has drawbacks, and that increases the potential that you may have issues with your vehicle down the line.
My main concern with this technology (even with my Mazda, which has no issues with carbon buildup due to coolant passages being rerouted away from the intake ports) is increased cylinder wall and piston ring wear due to fuel being sprayed directly into the combustion chamber. Due to this, what type of oil you use as well as the weight is rather critical.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Maryland
My main concern with this technology (even with my Mazda, which has no issues with carbon buildup due to coolant passages being rerouted away from the intake ports) is increased cylinder wall and piston ring wear due to fuel being sprayed directly into the combustion chamber. Due to this, what type of oil you use as well as the weight is rather critical.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: ON/NY