Originally Posted by Och

BOF SUVs have their place. Since this is a Lexus board, the issue a lot of us have with Lexus is that they offer FWD based crossovers that can't compete with tier 1 brands, and two BOF SUVs that, platford aside, are archaic with 80ies technology. Their offroad prowess is greatly exaggerated - they don't even offer torque vectoring and all the electronic controls that RRs have.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

but we're talking about BOF SUVs here, and the decline in sales of BOF SUVs over the past 15 years is undeniable.
e.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

I'm not talking about worldwide, I'm talking about the US. Many manufacturers sell BOF SUV models elsewhere in the world they don't sell here, because there is growing demand elsewhere in the world, demand here is shrinking.
e.

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill

Only way to look at Toyota body on frame models is to look at worldwide sales. They are all tied in. Toyota body on frame trucks and suvs don’t work without the support of world sales volumes. This is what makes them appealing to those who want them.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

^^^Correct. The Suburban nameplate dates from 1936.

I tend to agree with AJT (and Jill's correct that he did not use the term "Absurd"). For towing and passenger-hauling purposes, hauling, the BOF layout is a strong selling point for many Ford and GM full-size SUV-buyers. I may be wrong, but I don't know of any crossover/unibody vehicles in the American market that can carry up to 9 people and/or tow a significant-size boat or trailer...though some that may have been compromised by the shift to IRS from a live axle.

Having said that, though, Steve is correct that crossovers usually are a little more comfortable, although a large softly-spring BOF SUV can be surprisingly cushy. I remember the first time I tried out the then-new Ford Expedition EL and its IRS, I was surprised at how comfortable it rode.

And crossovers can also be uncomfortable as well. Some the relatively short-wheelbase ones, particularly with a high enter of gravity, tend to "porpoise" at lower speeds.....which is a rocking-horse-motion back and forth. Modern classis-engineering has eliminated a lot of it, but some vehicles still show a trace of it.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

Why don't they work just based on sales here? Because there is not enough demand for them in the United States. Thats my whole point.

Originally Posted by Och

If I live in Eastern Europe or former USSR Republics - I would totally drive a G wagen or LC/LX GX/Prado.

Originally Posted by Och

The new RR Defender is unibody with IRS, and has 8,200lbs towing capacity.
https://www.landroverusa.com/vehicle...apability.html

Originally Posted by SW17LS

None of this bothers me at all, this is Car Chat, I like discussing the auto industry and thats what I'm doing. Not sure why its getting you so worked up.

You keep bringing this back to "what I like to drive" I'm not talking about what I like to drive, I'm talking about the industry in an objective way. The shift from BOF SUVs to unibody crossovers is clear and undeniable. Same as the shift from sedans to crossovers is undeniable.

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill

Toyota body on frame SUVs have always been co developed alongside the trucks from a worldwide perspective. They have always been like that. US has never been enough to justify all the models. I bet you never knew that Toyota combined body on frame sales from their trucks to their SUVs in the US are at all time sales highs. Tacoma, Tundra, and 4Runner combined have never ever sold better than are today. Tacoma is at an all time sales high. So is the 4Runner. And in all the GX, LC, Sequoia and Land Cruiser models, and it is just extra

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

Don't confuse things with facts.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

Exactly LOL

But remember, Land Rovers are junky garbage nobody would ever take offroad.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

Tacoma and Tundra are not SUVs, they are pickup trucks...but as for the 4Runner I am aware its selling very well. Highlander still outsells it 2 to 1, and see how those sales figures increase when the new one is out.

Originally Posted by AJT123

I never saId that was false. I said I don't like crossovers, which is my opinion/preference. And I said that big BOF SUVs aren't going anywhere, which is a fact.