UAW strike
10-19-19, 02:51 PM
#302
Lexus Fanatic
\I disagree. The UAW absolutely knows and recognizes ^^^ this UAW will always be like this. The only thing that could ever go in the UAW favor would be massive tariffs on imported cars and a complete shutdown of Mexico/Canada/US trade...but will never happen
10-19-19, 02:57 PM
#303
Lexus Fanatic
GM has not grown any market share in perhaps 30 years. While still #1 in the US, each and every year a small number of their share decreases. Consumers truly do not care that there was a strike, it is not like they could not buy a GM car in the last 5 weeks.
10-19-19, 04:15 PM
#304
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yes and no. Saturn was extremely successful in the 1990s, until, in typical GM fashion, it was ruined in the 2000s.
GM actually lost most of its market share in the 1980s, when they did some of the most poorly-built products in tour history.
Again, yes and no. It goes beyond the strike....the strike was only a partial-manifestation. GM has ticked off customers for a number of reasons.
GM actually lost most of its market share in the 1980s, when they did some of the most poorly-built products in tour history.
Consumers truly do not care that there was a strike, it is not like they could not buy a GM car in the last 5 weeks.
10-19-19, 04:27 PM
#306
Lexus Champion
This is how business works. When you have a loss in revenue you seek to cut costs to compensate for that loss in revenue. The "easiest" way for them to cut costs is to shrink the US workforce and expand operations elsewhere where operating costs are dramatically smaller.
This is what the UAW has always failed to recognize. Their fortunes and GM's fortunes are aligned. They have always treated carmakers as an adversary, as the enemy and thats just not the reality of the relationship. When the carmaker does well, their employees do well. How do Toyota and Honda and BMW and Mercedes and on and on do well without unions and without striking? Because their parent companies are doing well and they don't have this pall around them the way US carmakers, especially GM does.
This is what the UAW has always failed to recognize. Their fortunes and GM's fortunes are aligned. They have always treated carmakers as an adversary, as the enemy and thats just not the reality of the relationship. When the carmaker does well, their employees do well. How do Toyota and Honda and BMW and Mercedes and on and on do well without unions and without striking? Because their parent companies are doing well and they don't have this pall around them the way US carmakers, especially GM does.
The issue here is that GM doesn't want highly paid permenant workers. It wants temps and it wants off shore non-union workers. Yet this is a company that is profitable. It is not going broke. There's a saying: a company deserves the union it gets. GM wants disposable human robots to be discarded the minute a low cost outsourced labor force can be found elsewhere.
Yes the two sides have an adverserial relationship and they should be working closer together. The UAW is pushing back because it sees giving concessions as the start of a slippery slope. Look at the who's who of GM shareholder blocks and you see Wall Street money men and investment firms, whose main focus is on money not on anything else.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
The only way this would have been a resounding success for UAW, is if all of the plants GM decided to close were reversed, and additional "new" plants were opened, and some Mexico production was moved to the US
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
Meanwhile... gm has offered gigantic incentives for uaw workers to leave. $60K bonus if 30yr people retire before february, and loads of other huge incentives. Gm’s obviously trying to shrink the uaw ball and chain.
and matty, obviously profit sharing is not the uaw workers’ main compensation but it is a big chunk. Last year i think on average it was $11K. But hey, if striking’s more important than profit sharing, more power to them.
and matty, obviously profit sharing is not the uaw workers’ main compensation but it is a big chunk. Last year i think on average it was $11K. But hey, if striking’s more important than profit sharing, more power to them.
10-19-19, 05:28 PM
#308
Lexus Champion
Good point, I read an article, I think it was Kiplinger, that dealers increased their inventories in anticipation of the strike and probably lost little in the way of sales of profitable trucks and SUV's.
10-19-19, 05:31 PM
#309
Lexus Fanatic
Yes. Something like 80 day supply, up from 50 or whatever they usually have. It also allowed GM to pretty much kill off their big sedan inventory as well as GM was not making anything
10-19-19, 08:18 PM
#310
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Japanese corporate culture is also focused on collaborative work culture and avoiding layoffs... the exact opposite of how the domestic Detroit car manufacturing sector sees its workers.
The issue here is that GM doesn't want highly paid permenant workers. It wants temps and it wants off shore non-union workers. Yet this is a company that is profitable. It is not going broke. There's a saying: a company deserves the union it gets. GM wants disposable human robots to be discarded the minute a low cost outsourced labor force can be found elsewhere.
Yes the two sides have an adverserial relationship and they should be working closer together.
The UAW is pushing back because it sees giving concessions as the start of a slippery slope.
Look at the who's who of GM shareholder blocks and you see Wall Street money men and investment firms, whose main focus is on money not on anything else.
It's obvious what the long term goal is: get rid of as many UAW jobs as possible, especially at the senior levels.
But it should be noted again: GM is not in financial trouble and it is not going bankrupt.
10-20-19, 03:03 AM
#311
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
and yet... japanese car companies now probably make more cars OUTSIDE of japan than in japan.
wrong. It doesn’t want labor that costs significantly higher than non-uaw auto plants leaving gm at a competitive disadvantage even if they’re profitable.
That will never happen. The uaw is bloated, corrupt, and lazy and has saddled gm with vast pension obligations that a former gm ceo made clear will only go away when enough retired uaw workers die.
They only have themselves to blame and gm management was stupid to having agreed to so much in the past,
10-20-19, 06:25 AM
#312
Lexus Fanatic
They only have themselves to blame and gm management was stupid to having agreed to so much in the past, but the uaw was also a lot more powerful then and could point a metaphorical gun to gm management’s head. Now uaw wants to not only preserve the undeserved and bloated pay and benefits, they want to extend it to temporary workers who are probably only temporary and lesser paid because gm has few options given it’s already vast obligations to current and former uaw workers.
No labor organization is going to voluntarily agree to give up wages, benefits etc.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-20-19 at 06:54 AM.
10-20-19, 08:43 AM
#313
Lexus Fanatic
BMW, Mercedes in Germany are unionized, as is much of the German manufacturing sector. The relationship between workers and employers there is much better. Japanese corporate culture is also focused on collaborative work culture and avoiding layoffs... the exact opposite of how the domestic Detroit car manufacturing sector sees its workers.
The issue here is that GM doesn't want highly paid permanent workers. It wants temps and it wants off shore non-union workers. Yet this is a company that is profitable. It is not going broke. There's a saying: a company deserves the union it gets. GM wants disposable human robots to be discarded the minute a low cost outsourced labor force can be found elsewhere.
Guess why foreign nonunion plants have lower average labor rates? Because they employ more temps and short term workers because thats what the market has determined these positions are worth.
I can list dozens of other industries where this has happened and entire swaths of jobs have been wiped out or pay dramatically less than they used to. My own company, if this were 10 years ago even we would need twice the staff we have to run a business of our size. I'm not out employing twice as many people as I need out of the goodness of my heart. You can't prop it up and force a company to pay like the old days when their competitors dont.
10-20-19, 10:17 AM
#314
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I guess the 11k every worker gets if they approve the deal covers the loss of wages while they were out. 
10-20-19, 11:02 AM
#315
An article and an editorial in the WSJ yesterday looked into the proposed GM deal.
(1) The deal needs to be ratified by the 46K UAW workers to go into effect. That will happen over the next week. I'm guessing the workers will ratify, even though many workers were hoping for much better results.
(2) GM gives a bonus of $11K to each worker. The workers have lost about $6K while on strike.
(3) Three assembly plants will proceed with closing, and GM has not promised to bring work back to the USA from Mexico.
(4) Newer workers will make $32/hr in a four-year ramp-up rather than eight years.
(5) The average labor cost for GM is $63/hr versus about $50/hr for non-union foreign auto plants in the South.
(6) The union will have more control over hiring and firing even if there is a sales slowdown.
(7) GM is betting that labor peace is worth the risks, but brings it closer to the edge if the economy slows.
(8) Buyouts and retirement incentives for high-paid workers.
(9) Wall Street said that the terms won't "significantly" damage GM's outlook. They take a $500M hit now (bonuses) and their labor costs will be $100M higher annually. Over the four years and at current sales rates, the labor cost increase will be a bit less than $100 a car. Not a huge deal, but a trend in the wrong direction and there is more risk during a downturn. One could say the UAW hasn't yet "killed" the goose that lays the golden eggs, but it's fitted the goose with a tight collar.
(1) The deal needs to be ratified by the 46K UAW workers to go into effect. That will happen over the next week. I'm guessing the workers will ratify, even though many workers were hoping for much better results.
(2) GM gives a bonus of $11K to each worker. The workers have lost about $6K while on strike.
(3) Three assembly plants will proceed with closing, and GM has not promised to bring work back to the USA from Mexico.
(4) Newer workers will make $32/hr in a four-year ramp-up rather than eight years.
(5) The average labor cost for GM is $63/hr versus about $50/hr for non-union foreign auto plants in the South.
(6) The union will have more control over hiring and firing even if there is a sales slowdown.
(7) GM is betting that labor peace is worth the risks, but brings it closer to the edge if the economy slows.
(8) Buyouts and retirement incentives for high-paid workers.
(9) Wall Street said that the terms won't "significantly" damage GM's outlook. They take a $500M hit now (bonuses) and their labor costs will be $100M higher annually. Over the four years and at current sales rates, the labor cost increase will be a bit less than $100 a car. Not a huge deal, but a trend in the wrong direction and there is more risk during a downturn. One could say the UAW hasn't yet "killed" the goose that lays the golden eggs, but it's fitted the goose with a tight collar.
Last edited by riredale; 10-20-19 at 11:15 AM.