Stroock639

let me just say i would never make a claim that i couldn't back up with evidence, and actual real world people have gotten sub 4 sec 0-60 and done the 1/4 mile in the high 11s at around 120 with a proper launch and good traction (stock i mean of course)

in the real world though yea closer to 5 is pretty accurate... i've gotten 4.3 just by being gentle with the pedal, unlike awd you cant just floor the car right away

car and driver also went on to say the ride is very harsh and the car got about 30 mpg on the highway, both of which are the total opposite of what makes for a great AMG lol... makes for a great sports car, but not an AMG

Stroock639

exactly... an AMG was always an all or nothing type car, having that badge on the back meant it was seriously one of the fastest cars money could buy and you were almost guaranteed to never see another one... i see no benefit to what they're currently currently doing with all the 43s, apart from them making more money since many people will literally pay just for the badge

of course the same goes for anyone with like a CLA250 since mercedes is perceived as being some kind of very prestigious brand despite essentially just being like the toyota of europe... but AMG is a sacred thing and i wish mercedes would do the right thing and not let greed take over

MattyG

They should have stuck to something along "sport line" but invoking AMG means they are trying to capture a market that sort of knows about the AMG vehicles but would be scared out of their bones to be driving the real deal. I don't have a problem with using FWD/AWD tech to its limits but once you start invoking AMG on a CLA class car, it's basically an extension of your garden variety CLA.

The C class vehicles OTH are RWD, but these are V6s pumped to their limits. They're doing a blender deal. You had E class and S class and then they went down to C class, and now their down to a FWD platform CLA. In this case, I feel your angst!

Toys4RJill

I don't know how anyone can say that hand built engines are not interesting. Handcrafted engine building is pretty exclusive.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/mer...an-one-engine/

https://www.wardsauto.com/news-analy...-built-engines

Stroock639

jealousy and envy perhaps

or people who don't have an appreciation for artisanal craftsmanship and longstanding traditions

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i’d rather have an engine built by robots that’s consistent and precisely made to tolerances no human can match.

’artisinal craftsmanship and longstanding traditions’ are a thing of the past... like antique furniture.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

but what do these ‘hand built’ people do? They assemble parts made by precise computer controlled machines and tighten bolts, clamps etc., using torque wrenches to pre-defined amounts. They’re essentially like more manual quality control...

it’s quaint and charming and good for marketing. But ultimately it’s irrelevant, except for the feels...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

This excellent ferrari manufacturing process video shows how high tech they are... yes they have people assembling some things still and stitching some interior materials for example, but most of the labor is quality control.

I’d rather have all this automation than having ‘one guy’ oversee the production of my car!

Stroock639

i'm not disagreeing with that at all, i'm just saying the hand assembled engine what makes something an AMG

if i also had to make a guess as to at least part of the reason they still do the one man one engine thing... these V8s and V12s are built in way lower numbers than the average engine, so developing an entire automated process for the engines is surely more expensive than having a bunch of people do most of the assembly, especially since most of these engines will have like a 4-5 year production period before a new one begins

Johnhav430

I couldn't disagree more. That would be like saying it's irrelevant how a Ferrari is painted, inspected, driven after production, and returned to the factory for more adjustments, by human beings, i.e. all the activity that takes place before being loaded onto a ship, vs. a cheap car like a BMW 330i lol

btw did I miss something? This is the 2nd time, and 2nd person, to use the word "irrelevant," when referring to a European car. Like it's the word of the week but nobody uses it when describing an Asian car.

Johnhav430

I know that this debate will go on forever, like the ones regarding mpgs, lease v. buy, V6 v. V8, etc.

Your car is a real AMG. It is. It was outrageous when it was new, a joke. A toy for a rich pharmacist (I know). A C430 or 53, these are not real AMGs. But in 2019 or 2020, they're probably better cars than yours, more valuable, more modern, yet, at the end of the day, you have a real AMG and the latter are not. Me? Especially given the current prices, I'd rather have yours. I like having a real old but authentic watch, not a brand-new replica watch (often more accurate than the authentic one). But that's an extreme example, a E53 AMG is by no means not a good car, it's likely an excellent car, but it's not a real AMG. We can go on forever about this topic lol

There was sort of a similar debate when Porsche came out with liquid cooled cars with engines in the front, but the answer was the opposite. The liquid cooled front engine'd Porsches, were real Porsches. a c430 is not a real AMG.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

perhaps you missed the part in the video where the entire ferrari is painted by robots. about all the other 'human' steps, a lot of that is probably demands by unions... just like 'train "drivers"' which are not only a complete waste of time and money, they've literally killed THOUSANDS of people through negligence. in an era of adaptive radar why do we need a train driver to supposedly maintain speed? for years congress has been trying to get amtrak to install auto slow-down systems for when the driver isn't paying attention of makes a mistake, but they continue to not spend the money or drag their feet, meanwhile more people get killed in train crashes. humans just aren't great at repetitive monotonous tasks. and especially now they have phones and surf facebook or text while supposedly 'working'

my use of irrelevant was nothing to do with it being a european car, just coincidence i guess. the 'one guy named fritz' working on an amg car is about as relevant as the lexus frequently mentioning the 'craftsmen' who work with leather and wood and make steering wheels, etc. while their skill is amazing, i personally couldn't care less whether the steering wheel was made by some guy who's been at it for decades or a soulless robot that was programmed to do it last week.

but i get the emotional pull of these marketing moves by luxury brands.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

'real' and 'true' are probably the most over-used and misused terms on the internet.
see No True Scotsman... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

but sure, Stroock's E55 is definitely not only a real AMG but probably the most audacious 'sleeper sedan' that was ever made. huge power with completely inadequate traction to deal with it. super fun no doubt.

good for you... it's ok to do things 'old school' of course if that's your thing. not mine. loads of people now no longer bother with a watch at all since their phone has the time and every other possible function on a watch and more, so those who wear old school watches like the 'craftsmenship' or it's more jewelry/fashion, which is fine too. is an Apple watch not a 'real' watch?

forget the front engine'd porsches for a second, there was 'outrage' when porsche went to water cooling on traditional rear engine 911's in what, early 90s? 'traditionalists' said the new models were not 'real' porsches. when the corvette goes mid-engine, no doubt there will be endless cries of it not being a 'real' corvette. in fact, every new generation of vette has fans hating on it for not being authentic.

change is hard...

but back to amg... i get the main point here that branding a 'sport package' essentially on a mainstream model as an 'amg' is not the same as a purpose built very high performance engine, but having said that, most 'true' amg models like the e55 were still built on 'regular' platforms (e-class, etc.) but with lots of mods, reinforcement, etc.

of course bmw has m-sport and m, lexus has f-sport and f, etc. it's just the thing these days... maybe mb should better distinguish the add-on amg from purpose built amg - amg-sport?

patgilm

There really is no right or wrong answer for this, it’s just personal opinion or preference. My GT-R has a hand built engine even with a plaque on the engine with the builder’s name on it. Would I care if they switched from a hand built engine to a machine built engine? Personally I couldn’t care less as long as it performs well but I’m sure others would care.

The only issue i have with what Mercedes is doing is that it waters down the AMG brand. I always think that AMG is the top of the line Mercedes for each model. That isn’t the case anymore but since I am going to test drive a C43 today, it doesn’t really bother me all that much.

Johnhav430

haha I was thinking of that Ultimate Factories episode on Ferrari, how the entire factory was designed so sunlight could come in and i.e. workers would be happier, and how after perfection they were (not so with BMW there was an episode too and if memory serves me they f'd up a X3 and the foreman had to correct the issue made me think it's imperative to stick with German produced models lol)

Well what I was referring to was that each car was taken out on the road after production. then it was brought back and there were even grease crayon markings where humans measured the paint was higher in this spot and that, and everything got corrected. They're not going to do that with a BMW 330i, no way, but they are on a Ferrari. And a BMW 330i G20 is no slouch, it's a beautiful car, compared to what it's replacing. But there's nothing "hand made" about it, whereas with a Ferrari, there is so much that is touched by humans and imperfections not tolerated and sent back for rework before release....I think that AMG cares get some of that special treatment, not all, but some