ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion
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ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/)
-   Car Chat (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat-139/)
-   -   New study reveals which cars likely to be kept 15 years or longer (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/908234-new-study-reveals-which-cars-likely-to-be-kept-15-years-or-longer.html)

AJT123 01-24-19 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by SW17LS (Post 10419257)
I don't really agree with that. My LS460L (and my LS460 before it) are every bit as rolling isolation chamber as my LS430 was. The new ES is a very soft and quiet riding car, as was the outgoing ES. I do agree that the LS500 is not that.
Not saying 460s aren't plush, but I do believe the 460 was the beginning car of some slogan.....it will come to me...god what was it....L finesse?

Originally Posted by SW17LS (Post 10419257)
I do too, but I wouldn't want to own one...at least not as a daily.
Oh I would drive a 98-00 around in a heartbeat if I didn't have my '04.

SW17LS 01-24-19 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by mmarshall (Post 10419270)
Agree....though perhaps just a tiny hair stiffer in the underpinnings and/or tires.
Not a LWB car with the air suspension. My LS460L rides every bit as soft as any LS I've had (remember I had both an LS400 and an LS430 with air suspension), and thats on 19" wheels with 45 series tires. The SWB on coil suspension is a tad firmer.

In my experience, not with the 45-series ties, which, IMO, ruin it from a ride-comfort perspective. I haven't tried a new ES350 with the 55s, but a more or less similar new 2019 Avalon XLE with the 55s was quite a bit better....almost as smooth as my Lacrosse.
I just don't agree with you at all. I just helped my buddy buy a CPO 2016 ES350 and we drove those back to back with 17s and 18s, the one he bought is a UL car with the 18s. We also drove 2019 ES350s back to back on 17s and 18s and while there's a slight difference, I was really impressed by how well the car rides on the 18s., if you don't compare them back to back you would never think there was any way the car on the 18s could ride better. We also went and drove a Lacrosse right afterwards, and had driven a new Avalon on 55 series tires right before, and the Lacrosse rides no better, and the Avalon rode almost exactly like the ES, which you would expect.

Originally Posted by AJT123 (Post 10419275)
Not saying 460s aren't plush, but I do believe the 460 was the beginning car of some slogan.....it will come to me...god what was it....L finesse?
L-Finesse was a styling convention, didn't have anything to do with the dynamics of the car. I've had them all, and my LS460L with air suspension is the equal or better riding car than my LS430, and its more enjoyable to drive overall because the handling is less sloppy.

mmarshall 01-24-19 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by SW17LS (Post 10419391)
Not a LWB car with the air suspension. My LS460L rides every bit as soft as any LS I've had (remember I had both an LS400 and an LS430 with air suspension), and thats on 19" wheels with 45 series tires. The SWB on coil suspension is a tad firmer.
OK...with the air-suspension, you may have a point. I don't think the last LS460 I sampled had it.



I just don't agree with you at all. I just helped my buddy buy a CPO 2016 ES350 and we drove those back to back with 17s and 18s, the one he bought is a UL car with the 18s. We also drove 2019 ES350s back to back on 17s and 18s and while there's a slight difference, I was really impressed by how well the car rides on the 18s., if you don't compare them back to back you would never think there was any way the car on the 18s could ride better. We also went and drove a Lacrosse right afterwards, and had driven a new Avalon on 55 series tires right before, and the Lacrosse rides no better, and the Avalon rode almost exactly like the ES, which you would expect.
OK, fine...we can disagree. But my rump and senses, over the years, rarely lie to me when it comes to ride-quality. I assume yours don't, either....and respect your opinion. Alex Dykes, though, also tends to feel that the 18" Lacrosse is the cushiest car in its class, even if not by much..

Toys4RJill 01-24-19 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by mmarshall (Post 10419396)




OK, fine...we can disagree. But my rump and senses, over the years, rarely lie to me when it comes to ride-quality. I assume yours don't, either....and respect your opinion. Alex Dykes, though, also tends to feel that the 18" Lacrosse is the cushiest car in its class, even if not by much..
Hard to believe the last gen ES rides better than the new Lacrosse. My parents ES certainly was not as soft riding as one could expect. Their new Avalon with 18s feels far superior.

https://www.autobytel.com/car-buying...t-ride-131896/

mmarshall 01-24-19 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill (Post 10419414)
Hard to believe the last gen ES rides better than the new Lacrosse.

IMO it doesn't...especially with the 18" wheel Lacrosse.

My parents ES certainly was not as soft riding as one could expect. Their new Avalon with 18s feels far superior.

Yes...the new XLE Avalon with the 55-series tires isn't bad at all.......MUCH better than the 2013-2015 Avalon (the 2016 was a mild improvement). Lexus, IMO, is simply putting too much sport into their latest sedans, though I admit I haven't sampled a new ES with 55s. Steve (apparantly) likes the new ES with 45s....I don't. That's where we disagree.

AJT123 01-24-19 06:46 PM
Every ES I've experienced for sure had a nice "Lexuslike" ride, and it was quiet enough, but it ain't no LS.

mmarshall 01-24-19 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by AJT123 (Post 10419484)
Every ES I've experienced for sure had a nice "Lexuslike" ride, and it was quiet enough, but it ain't no LS.
Have you sampled a new 2019 ES with the 45s? Opinions differ on that....as Jill, Steve, and myself have discussed.

The smoothest ES models, BTW, were the ones built before 2006.

AJT123 01-24-19 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by mmarshall (Post 10419486)
Have you sampled a new 2019 ES with the 45s? Opinions differ on that....as Jill, Steve, and myself have discussed.
No but I have to take our IS in for a recall when I get around to it, maybe I'll get one as a loaner. I really want to drive the new LS and sample the V6 but don't want to waste a guy's time if he could be actually selling a car to another person.

bitkahuna 01-24-19 07:36 PM
What do any of these posts about tire ratio, ride quality, etc have to do with keeping cars 15 years or more?

I think this thread is close to being closed.

Toys4RJill 01-24-19 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by bitkahuna (Post 10419530)
What do any of these posts about tire ratio, ride quality, etc have to do with keeping cars 15 years or more?







All these things add up to user satisfaction. I imagine some of these parts have an influence in how long a car is kept. My parents ditched their ES very quickly, ride was a concern as it was just not soft enough. Controls were way to difficult to use for folks in the mid 70s at the time. Their ES seemed better at being an airport taxi. i I disagree that the discussion veered off course to warrant a closure.

Can you imagine keeping your Genesis 15 plus years? I just drove my parents Avalon for a while, it's very nice and sincere and hush hush, but that just makes it boring long term IMO. Their 4Runner seems to be high in user satisfaction. Ironically, the 4Runner has 20" rims I can definitely see our Matrix making it to 15 years, very useful for space and it comes with the upgrade engine, the new Corolla hatch just does not seem all that desirable.

SW17LS 01-24-19 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill (Post 10419414)
Hard to believe the last gen ES rides better than the new Lacrosse. My parents ES certainly was not as soft riding as one could expect. Their new Avalon with 18s feels far superior.

https://www.autobytel.com/car-buying...t-ride-131896/


The 13-15 model like your parents I agree with you, I looked at that car extensively when I got my 2013 GS. They did however soften the suspension up considerably with the refresh in 2016. My friends 2016 he just bought rides very similar to the new Avalon, which he also considered and drove.

All these things add up to user satisfaction. I imagine some of these parts have an influence in how long a car is kept
I agree...

Originally Posted by mmarshall
The smoothest ES models, BTW, were the ones built before 2006.
Having one of those pre 2006 ES still after nearly 200k miles, I again disagree. The current and immediately prior (post refresh) ES are just as smooth.

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Can you imagine keeping your Genesis 15 plus years? I just drove my parents Avalon for a while, it's very nice and sincere and hush hush, but that just makes it boring long term IMO.
I will say, that my LS460L is the first car I have had in a long time that I could see myself having for a long time, I really like it that much. However, I don't see that "long time" being 15 years. Maybe...5 years. Or perhaps longer if its added to by a third car that would take some of the daily duties off of it that is more modern.

Just from a tech standpoint, when I drive my old 2003 ES300 which is 15 years old, its just archaic...no Bluetooth phone, let alone BT audio. Nav system is ancient. The styling is from another era, the dynamics are sloppy even though the car mechanically and physically has been great and is in very good shape. Theres just no way I could drive that car today. Imagine 15 years from now what a current year car will lack compared to what will be out there...

Toys4RJill 01-24-19 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by SW17LS (Post 10419560)

Just from a tech standpoint, when I drive my old 2003 ES300 which is 15 years old, its just archaic...no Bluetooth phone, let alone BT audio. Nav system is ancient. The styling is from another era, the dynamics are sloppy even though the car mechanically and physically has been great and is in very good shape. Theres just no way I could drive that car today. Imagine 15 years from now what a current year car will lack compared to what will be out there...
Yes I agree. I think with design and especially luxury car design it has a large influence, I imagine most luxury car makers are aware of this. Now you add in things like a screen with graphics and it begins to date itself very quickly. Maybe Apple Car Play avoids all this as you get a new fresh update that you get to use. If apple ever takes over the hvac and radio interface, there is less need to upgrade.

SW17LS 01-24-19 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill (Post 10419578)
Yes I agree. I think with design and especially luxury car design it has a large influence, I imagine most luxury car makers are aware of this. Now you add in things like a screen with graphics and it begins to date itself very quickly. Maybe Apple Car Play avoids all this as you get a new fresh update that you get to use. If apple ever takes over the hvac and radio interface, there is less need to upgrade.
I think theres a lot of truth to that...

Toys4RJill 01-24-19 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by SW17LS (Post 10419582)
I think theres a lot of truth to that...
The 02 ES also dates itself significantly with some of the wood colours and design as well. That red wood colour was nice at the time, but 17 years later it makes ES look significantly out of style. No longer contemporary. I believe there was a lighter option as well. The design at the time, especially the front end now looks very dated. contrast the ES of the time to the 02 LS430, the LS design does not date itself as much.

SW17LS 01-24-19 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill (Post 10419604)
The 02 ES also dates itself significantly with some of the wood colours and design as well. That red wood colour was nice at the time, but 17 years later it makes ES look significantly out of style. No longer contemporary. I believe there was a lighter option as well. The design at the time, especially the front end now looks very dated. contrast the ES of the time to the 02 LS430, the LS design does not date itself as much.
The color of the wood depends on the year. Pre-refresh 02-04 cars had the reddish wood with any of the three interior colors, black, grey or tan. Post refresh 05-06 cars had the blond birds eye maple with the grey or tan interior and kept the red for the black. Both look dated now.

02-04:


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...901cec688f.jpg

05-06:


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...1af21100b1.jpg

Stuff like that is always going to go out of style dating cars over time I agree.


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