2020 Ford Explorer
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Illinois
I guess you could then argue why they'd include Enclave and Traverse with what's listed as large SUV's - Expedition, Tahoe, Suburban, Armada, Yukon & Sequoia. There's probably no right or wrong answer.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2016
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From: PA
Sequoia has no room, it should be mid sized. Isn't large, medium, small, compact, with cars, interior volume? Sounds like it's arbitrary with US News. But as you point out really anything could be whatever they want nowadays.
CL Community Team
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: IL
I would agree in spirit. I haven't driven the G90, but the 8-speed transmission in our Q7 is perfect, as is pretty much any other example of the near-ubiquitous ZF 8-speed I've driven. It's truly fantastic.
Ironically I can't find confirmation of whether the G90 also uses the ZF 8-speed, but I suspect it does, since early models used a ZF 6-speed.
I've also heard nothing but praise for the new Ford/GM 10-speed.
Ironically I can't find confirmation of whether the G90 also uses the ZF 8-speed, but I suspect it does, since early models used a ZF 6-speed.
I've also heard nothing but praise for the new Ford/GM 10-speed.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
Times change, and a few years ago 3 row crossovers didn't exist.
People just don't want a car that is smaller only inside. Its the same size outside, just considerably smaller inside. That wasn't a deliberate choice.
Again, if the Highlander was smaller outside also your logic would make sense, but its not. Its smaller inside with no benefit. Poorly designed.
So they added seats to the Explorer so they could push people to the Expedition? I'm not sure how that makes sense.
If you look at BMW they took the third row out of the X5 when they launched the X7 to push buyers to the X7. THAT makes sense.
The G90s I drove had the same issue my LS460 has, it feels fine most of the time but you can confuse it into being in the wrong gear and it hangs there at high RPM for a second until it gets its wits about it, sort of like being in the wrong gear with a manual. Never had that experience with a 5 or 6 speed.
Totally agree.
Sure, they're not terribly bigger than other vehicles in the segment and it makes sense to cross shop them.
On another note, you want to hear about bad packaging, the Traverse is smaller inside than the Palisade despite being 10 inches longer!
This allows Toyota to cater the HL to people want something a little different than just the hugest 3rd row.
Again, if the Highlander was smaller outside also your logic would make sense, but its not. Its smaller inside with no benefit. Poorly designed.
Ford has maxed out their Explorer to 7 seats and some have 6 seats only for the very same reason, they want to push buyers to the Expedition.
If you look at BMW they took the third row out of the X5 when they launched the X7 to push buyers to the X7. THAT makes sense.
The G90s I drove had the same issue my LS460 has, it feels fine most of the time but you can confuse it into being in the wrong gear and it hangs there at high RPM for a second until it gets its wits about it, sort of like being in the wrong gear with a manual. Never had that experience with a 5 or 6 speed.
as for sizes and rows and categories, you guys are all splitting hairs and engaging in pointless round and round.
Originally Posted by Johnhav430
What's already suspect is Buick Enclave and Chevy Traverse are mid sized? lol
On another note, you want to hear about bad packaging, the Traverse is smaller inside than the Palisade despite being 10 inches longer!
Last edited by SW17LS; Apr 14, 2020 at 12:18 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: ON/NY
I have been driving the Avalon with an 8 speed since January. It is great. Where it really excels in past 50MPH as it feels like the gearing is endless and it is always operating efficiently. City driving it downshifts quickly, but for fuel efficiency There is also sport mode which removes the quicker downshifts
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
"Few", in this case, may be a relative term. The three-row crossover GM Enclave/Acadia/Traverse twins date back to 2008 (a dozen years). The crossover Subaru Tribeca, which had a third-row/7-seat option, dates to 2006.....14 years ago. The unibody/crossover Jeep Commander, with a 7-seat option, also dates to 2006. There are (likely) other examples as well, but those three readily come to mind.
And many, though not all, of your 3 and 4-row minivans were crossover/unibody/FWD, although a few of the early ones from Ford and GM were BOF.
And many, though not all, of your 3 and 4-row minivans were crossover/unibody/FWD, although a few of the early ones from Ford and GM were BOF.
The G90s I drove had the same issue my LS460 has, it feels fine most of the time but you can confuse it into being in the wrong gear and it hangs there at high RPM for a second until it gets its wits about it, sort of like being in the wrong gear with a manual. Never had that experience with a 5 or 6 speed.
also, maybe you were driving in sport mode perhaps.
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Not only that, but Expedition prices can be absurd. My next-door neighbors bought one last year that was $73K on the price-sticker, although, with incentives and discounts on large truck-based vehicles, I don't think they actually paid that much for it. Also seemed a lot more solidly-built than the Explorer, and, though big, bulky, and difficult to park, might just be worth the extra money if one does not pay full price. But, like I say, full-price on Expeditions can be absurd,
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
Has a lot to do with style of driving.
Not only that, but Expedition prices can be absurd. My next-door neighbors bought one last year that was $73K on the price-sticker, although, with incentives and discounts on large truck-based vehicles, I don't think they actually paid that much for it. Also seemed a lot more solidly-built than the Explorer, and, though big, bulky, and difficult to park, might just be worth the extra money if one does not pay full price. But, like I say, full-price on Expeditions can be absurd,
It just doesn't feel like a $75,000+ vehicle to me
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: California
2021 Ford Explorer gets some big price cuts
Base model $540 less dear, 2021 Explorer Platinum cuts $3,770
Sales of the sixth-generation Ford Explorer sales are up nearly 15% through the first six months of 2020 compared to last year, despite this year's relentless disruptions to normalcy. That could be interpreted as the model hitting its stride, or a sign of how many sales the clumsy launch robbed from the crossover's first year on the market. Ford Authority got eyes on an order guide for the 2021 Explorer, revealing discounts across the entire lineup. Ford didn't explain its rationale for lowering the prices on all trims, but buyers who waited for what will be the third year on sale will benefit, saving more money the higher they go up the food chain. The base Explorer gets the smallest price cut of $540, coming to $33,470 after a $1,245 charge for destination. That figure more than erases the $400 MSRP bump that debuted with the sixth-gen Explorer.
The XLT trim and its returning Sport Appearance Package hop into four-figure savings, starting at $34,245 next year — a $2,925 drop compared to this year. The Explorer Limited will be $3,670 less expensive, starting at $45,955.
The base, XLT, and Limited deliver the same savings in rear- and all-wheel drive. The hybrid Limited HEV rear-wheel drive lops $2,675 off the price for next year, opening the bidding at $51,100. Go for AWD and the cutback climbs to $2,870, to an MSRP of $53,100. The remaining trims only come in AWD — the Explorer ST kicking off at $53,850, saving $2,135 compared to 2020, the 2021 Explorer Platinum charging $55,275, saving $3,770.
On the options list, there's another hefty discount on Equipment Group 202A that bundles LED fog lamps, ActiveX seating surfaces, an eight-way adjustable passenger's seat, and remote start. Instead of costing $4,140 as now, buyers will pay just $3,540.
These new prices are the biggest change for 2021 that we know of so far, the others being more colors added to the exterior palette and slight changes to the ST cabin. Ford Authority has caught prototypes of what it believes is an off-road-oriented model, perhaps an FX4 trim that will join the Explorer lineup. The 2021 crossover is scheduled to enter production September 21 at Ford's Chicago Assembly Plant.
The XLT trim and its returning Sport Appearance Package hop into four-figure savings, starting at $34,245 next year — a $2,925 drop compared to this year. The Explorer Limited will be $3,670 less expensive, starting at $45,955.
The base, XLT, and Limited deliver the same savings in rear- and all-wheel drive. The hybrid Limited HEV rear-wheel drive lops $2,675 off the price for next year, opening the bidding at $51,100. Go for AWD and the cutback climbs to $2,870, to an MSRP of $53,100. The remaining trims only come in AWD — the Explorer ST kicking off at $53,850, saving $2,135 compared to 2020, the 2021 Explorer Platinum charging $55,275, saving $3,770.
On the options list, there's another hefty discount on Equipment Group 202A that bundles LED fog lamps, ActiveX seating surfaces, an eight-way adjustable passenger's seat, and remote start. Instead of costing $4,140 as now, buyers will pay just $3,540.
These new prices are the biggest change for 2021 that we know of so far, the others being more colors added to the exterior palette and slight changes to the ST cabin. Ford Authority has caught prototypes of what it believes is an off-road-oriented model, perhaps an FX4 trim that will join the Explorer lineup. The 2021 crossover is scheduled to enter production September 21 at Ford's Chicago Assembly Plant.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Ford Authority has caught prototypes of what it believes is an off-road-oriented model, perhaps an FX4 trim that will join the Explorer lineup. The 2021 crossover is scheduled to enter production September 21 at Ford's Chicago Assembly Plant.
Lead Lap
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From: Virginia
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
As the term applies to off-roading, most people (and probably most reviewers) would consider "significant" to be more than just driving across grassy areas or dirt roads/gravel-trails.