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On AudiWorld, a poster said it best about CP/AA about what I was trying to get at:
That's essentially the limitation of using one's phone for this in general. The iPhone can only run one application at a time, but even with Android, since both CarPlay and AA are essentially simply a form of phone screen mirrors (not exact mirror, the UI gets adjusted) you can't have one app on the MMI display and another app in use on the phone. This is one reason I still like in-car navigation. It leaves my phone available for other things.
Ultimately, AA and CarPlay are stop gap solutions in my opinion. It's nice to be able to mirror the phone onto the car's display, but that's very limited. It doesn't integrate with all the car's displays and the number of those keeps increasing. It also doesn't integrate with the car's systems such as the predictive driving assistant and other systems in the car that use map data. You can't ask Siri to change the temperature of the AC etc. These systems can't take advantage of a HUD, a virtual cockpit and a center screen. There are just too many variations and who knows what car manufacturers are coming up with in the future. There is already talk of the future where the entire windshield is gonna become one giant display for augmented reality. There's no way AA and CarPlay are gonna be able to support all that as it will vary from car to car and manufacturer to manufacturer. Technically CarPlay can support up to two display.
Both CarPlay and AA look out of place quite frankly from a UI perspective. Sometimes it looks rather cartoonish next to the VC etc. They are also limited to rectangular displays and with car manufacturers increasly using oddly shaped displays for example the VC, this projection stuff just isn't gonna work. You can't project a rectangular phone UI on a non-rectangular car display such as the VC w/o leaving very ugly borders.
What he said - is what I highlighted earlier. My main complaints about CP/AA is that it limits your function of your main infotainment system. Its either one or the other. And for some people - they use the main infotainment system more often. This goes back to my 2019 Lexus ES example. If you are a heavy Amazon Alexa user but want to Waze too, you are out of luck. You can't use them both at the same time because Alexa only functions with Enform. This is the problem with CP/AA. This is the problem why majority of Audi users, BMW users and MB users all want to use their own systems rather than CP/AA.
Yeah. They have to use a 3rd party OS. Its because BMW and MB doesn't make their own OS.
My comment was referencing how some people want the standard infotainment system to go completely iOS and Android. IE: Remove MBUX, iDrive, Enform and etc... Then provide only a phone mirroring service as the infotainment system. MB and BMW will never allow that as they doubling down on creation of their own infotainment system.
Nobody is ever doing that, because it would be locking other OS providers out. It is just misunderstand from all these PR presentations.
Waze app has been updated and is now available on CarPlay. There's a handful of noteworthy apps available. This number should significantly increase in the next 2-5 years.
Google Maps and Waze are definitely game changers. It means that the OEM provided navigation resources have their writing on the wall... why dedicate auto engineering and $$ resources to an area (mapping) when it is not your specialty. Get back to autos. Apple learned a very important lesson to get into the mapping business, or be dependent on Google forever. Auto companies do not have the time or resources to do what Google and Apple have done. They get the tablet and phone input devices biz very well to the tune of billions and billions served. Every car in future will have a high resolution smart console. It wont be long that we'll have dedicated apps by the car they're driving.
Who wants to deal with the upkeep of older car navigation systems? Even the LS430 navigation is turning into an relic (very much like the early days of the PC). The smart console means the car manufacturers can eventually stop supporting legacy systems and move forward with the times. Fast forward to 2028, a phone from the year 2026 can work with cars that have CarPlay today (2018) and continue to give users an smart car experience better than the day the car was bought 10 years ago. That is pretty impressive bit of future proofing right there!
The CarPlay + AndroidAuto adoption track will be much faster than initiatives going on for hybrid or e-cars. Tech + Luxury is the new game in town for the 2020's and Lexus needs to plant their flag firmly in this ground or be left in the dust (resistant to change, out of date).
On AudiWorld, a poster said it best about CP/AA about what I was trying to get at:
Since said poster starts out by proving he/she doesn't know what they're talking about, I'm going to go ahead and discount the rest of it.
That's essentially the limitation of using one's phone for this in general. The iPhone can only run one application at a time, but even with Android, since both CarPlay and AA are essentially simply a form of phone screen mirrors (not exact mirror, the UI gets adjusted) you can't have one app on the MMI display and another app in use on the phone. This is one reason I still like in-car navigation. It leaves my phone available for other things.
This is not even remotely close to accurate. I routinely check my email, slack messages, or news when I'm stopped at stoplights, without interrupting the maps being displayed on the infotainment screen or the audio playing through the stereo.
Google Maps and Waze are definitely game changers. It means that the OEM provided navigation resources have their writing on the wall... why dedicate auto engineering and $$ resources to an area (mapping) when it is not your specialty. Get back to autos. Apple learned a very important lesson to get into the mapping business, or be dependent on Google forever. Auto companies do not have the time or resources to do what Google and Apple have done.
Auto companies do not develop navigation systems. In fact, with new Camry, Toyota has kept factory navigation from most of the models, and i think quite few complained about it even here... their free mobile phone nav is available on all models.
Auto companies do not develop navigation systems. In fact, with new Camry, Toyota has kept factory navigation from most of the models, and i think quite few complained about it even here... their free mobile phone nav is available on all models.
If I remember correctly, the navigation system application in my 2015 ES was developed by Garmin (maker of standalone navigation systems). It was just seamlessly integrated into the Lexus infotainment system.
Since said poster starts out by proving he/she doesn't know what they're talking about, I'm going to go ahead and discount the rest of it.
This is not even remotely close to accurate. I routinely check my email, slack messages, or news when I'm stopped at stoplights, without interrupting the maps being displayed on the infotainment screen or the audio playing through the stereo.
If this is who says it best, then I rest my case.
The person shilling for infotainment literally has no idea what he's talking about. He's resorted to nebulous statements like, "a majority in the other car forums dislike CP/AA, therefore I'm right". They've demonstrated time and again that they are largely misinformed on how interfacing with ones phone through the vehicle actually works - or at least should work. When you consider the fact that fully-integrated CarPlay/AA (in the near future) will allow usage of every single downloaded app through one's vehicle, the argument becomes clear. That is, there's no argument. Last I checked, infotainment systems do not have an App Store. They are wildly limited, overpriced and underwhelming features.
That's literally what I'm trying to say. Unless you are not understanding what I'm saying.
I don't think you read this person's post. He's saying that if your phone is integrated with your vehicle, then you can use any app you want. Yes, Apple has not yet rolled out interoperability with every single app in existence. Let's not be unreasonable. That will happen soon enough. Infotainment on the other hand, has no apps, and does nothing other than offer maps and an interface to the car's settings.
It's vexing how difficult this crucial difference in smartphone vs infotainment seems to be to grasp.
He's saying:
Originally Posted by swajames
As we've said all along, CP is all about scalability (offloading processing and feature delivery to the phone), longevity (your phone, its OS and the underlying software are all easily upgradable) and choice - it's better to have more options open to you than fewer. Your car's infotainment system can't easily (or at all) offer these benefits.
Infotainment systems have virtually none of these things, unless you define "choice" as your right to choose an infotainment system over CarPlay. Totally different subject.
Waze app has been updated and is now available on CarPlay. There's a handful of noteworthy apps available. This number should significantly increase in the next 2-5 years.
Google Maps and Waze are definitely game changers. It means that the OEM provided navigation resources have their writing on the wall... why dedicate auto engineering and $$ resources to an area (mapping) when it is not your specialty. Get back to autos. Apple learned a very important lesson to get into the mapping business, or be dependent on Google forever. Auto companies do not have the time or resources to do what Google and Apple have done. They get the tablet and phone input devices biz very well to the tune of billions and billions served. Every car in future will have a high resolution smart console. It wont be long that we'll have dedicated apps by the car they're driving.
Who wants to deal with the upkeep of older car navigation systems? Even the LS430 navigation is turning into an relic (very much like the early days of the PC). The smart console means the car manufacturers can eventually stop supporting legacy systems and move forward with the times. Fast forward to 2028, a phone from the year 2026 can work with cars that have CarPlay today (2018) and continue to give users an smart car experience better than the day the car was bought 10 years ago. That is pretty impressive bit of future proofing right there!
The CarPlay + AndroidAuto adoption track will be much faster than initiatives going on for hybrid or e-cars. Tech + Luxury is the new game in town for the 2020's and Lexus needs to plant their flag firmly in this ground or be left in the dust (resistant to change, out of date).
Look - I admit - Google Maps and Waze the best maps in the best business and no one can compete with that. They are continuously updating it. However - you have realize - no one own cars for more than later than 3-5 years now. And car companies know this. On average - your in-car infotainment system from a luxury company can stay new for you before your lease deal ends. Therefore - pretty much making CP/AA useless if the system is good. I think BMW realizes this and decide to make CP/AA an annual sub-based fee.
Again - sure Tech is definitely going to be a big thing going forward for car companies in the coming years. However - CP/AA isn't "revolutionary" tech that is going to change the minds of the average buyer though.
Lets look at the Lexus RX.
Ever since 2013 till today (with no CP/AA) it averages: 105K units per year in sales. If you think people care about CP/AA so much, then those numbers would be lower - much lower.
Originally Posted by geko29
Since said poster starts out by proving he/she doesn't know what they're talking about, I'm going to go ahead and discount the rest of it.
This is not even remotely close to accurate. I routinely check my email, slack messages, or news when I'm stopped at stoplights, without interrupting the maps being displayed on the infotainment screen or the audio playing through the stereo.
If this is who says it best, then I rest my case.
You clearly don't know what the poster is talking about.
Firstly - Apple Car Play and Android Auto is a mirror service. It'll just copy what you do on your phone to what you do on the screen. In order for this to happen, it has to be on "CP/AA enabled apps".
Apps for E-Mail, news, youtube, and etc... (Apps that aren't mirrored) can be used on the phone. Because its not reflected on your screen. However - if you have the music app running on your infotainment screen and then you pull up messages on your iPhone, the music app will close off on your screen. Its pretty much 1:1 for other apps within your phone.
His complain was that you can't have two running Apple Car Play apps. (Not other Apps).
And I love how you complete dismissed his other points, which is:
It's nice to be able to mirror the phone onto the car's display, but that's very limited. It doesn't integrate with all the car's displays and the number of those keeps increasing. It also doesn't integrate with the car's systems such as the predictive driving assistant and other systems in the car that use map data. You can't ask Siri to change the temperature of the AC etc. These systems can't take advantage of a HUD, a virtual cockpit and a center screen.
Again - I know you love Apple Car Play and Android Auto. I also can see how good it is to some cars without good infotainment systems or much tech. However - in higher-end luxury cars - it feels like a stop-gap solution. It restricts too much of your own infotainment system. End result - its one or the other. Some people doesn't want to always keep closing Apple Car Play, go back into "car", do what they want, then go back into Apple Car Play. It should be seamless. However - it won't be ever seamless because Car Companies will never allow it.
Originally Posted by nitroracer
The person shilling for infotainment literally has no idea what he's talking about. He's resorted to nebulous statements like, "a majority in the other car forums dislike CP/AA, therefore I'm right". They've demonstrated time and again that they are largely misinformed on how interfacing with ones phone through the vehicle actually works - or at least should work. When you consider the fact that fully-integrated CarPlay/AA (in the near future) will allow usage of every single downloaded app through one's vehicle, the argument becomes clear. That is, there's no argument. Last I checked, infotainment systems do not have an App Store. They are wildly limited, overpriced and underwhelming features.
If you are referring to me, I have never once said majority of other car forums dislike CP/AA so there I'm right. However - on the other hand - you did this. You claimed that "majority of the people here agree with you so you are right." Love the twist though. +1
There will never - never ever - be full integration of the whole phone that lets you use every app. Car companies will allow it to happen and Apple/Android can't let it happen. It'll be too complex to allow it all to happen.
BippuLexus, not to pile on, but again to correct a point you've made a few times claiming you can't use CP plus another standard infotainment component (via a split screen).
On my 2018 BMW I can have absolutely have both CP and standard IDrive apps running simultaneously on the primary display. I can even have Waze/Google Maps/Apple Maps running on the left, and BMW factory navigation (or audio, or other factory features) running on the right....
Last edited by swajames; Sep 27, 2018 at 05:52 PM.
On my 2018 BMW I can have absolutely have both CP and standard IDrive apps running simultaneously on the primary display. I can even have Waze/Google Maps/Apple Maps running on the left, and BMW factory navigation running on the right....
Thanks. Didn’t know this was at all possible. Do you use Apple Car play a lot?
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Sep 27, 2018 at 05:54 PM.
You clearly don't know what the poster is talking about.
I think I know better than he/she does. Again, here's the quote:
even with Android, since both CarPlay and AA are essentially simply a form of phone screen mirrors (not exact mirror, the UI gets adjusted) you can't have one app on the MMI display and another app in use on the phone.
Just to be crystal clear: This is a lie. It is patently, demonstrably false. There is no grey area, no opportunity for misunderstanding. The poster is either ignorant of the facts, or willfully misrepresenting them.
Originally Posted by BippuLexus
Apps for E-Mail, news, youtube, and etc... (Apps that aren't mirrored) can be used on the phone. Because its not reflected on your screen. However - if you have the music app running on your infotainment screen and then you pull up messages on your iPhone, the music app will close off on your screen. Its pretty much 1:1 for other apps within your phone.
Unlike the other poster, I'm not going to claim to know how a system I haven't used works. So I'll allow for the possibility that CarPlay works the way you describe. If so, it's kind of silly and hopefully Apple will fix it at some point.
Originally Posted by BippuLexus
His complain was that you can't have two running Apple Car Play apps. (Not other Apps).
As shown above, he/she also said that Android Auto was limited in a similar fashion. It is not. It is quite easy to have 2 or more Android Auto apps running at the same time (only one onscreen at a time, obviously, though it's easy to switch between them), while also using something else directly on the device.
Originally Posted by BippuLexus
And I love how you complete dismissed his other points
I'm not sure why I should obligated to further respond to someone who has so completely and thoroughly destroyed their own credibility.
Originally Posted by BippuLexus
End result - its one or the other. Some people doesn't want to always keep closing Apple Car Play, go back into "car", do what they want, then go back into Apple Car Play. It should be seamless. However - it won't be ever seamless because Car Companies will never allow it.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Case in point:
Yes, that's CarPlay on half the screen, and the built-in SiriusXM tuner on the other half.
Last edited by Allen K; Sep 27, 2018 at 06:15 PM.
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