Future of the Lexus GS around the world
04-18-18, 10:37 PM
#376
Remember how I said earlier not to be too concerned about annual profits/losses, but to be more concerned about Net Equity ie Net Worth [assets less liabilities]?
Like, a person can make a 1.5 million dollar loss last year, yet still own 30 million dollars in property - you know what I mean?
Thus Ferrari - despite last year's profits - did you know that Ferrari has a Net Equity of only US$402 million?
Even BMW AG is worth around US$66 billion.
Daimler AG is around US$81 billion.
Toyota Motor Corp is around US$171 billion.
That's why back in 1988, Fiat increased their stake in Ferrari to 90%.
This doesn't happen out of the blue for no reason.
The remaining 10% is still owned by the original Ferrari family if I'm not wrong.
Ditto Bentley etc. This also applies to other exotic producers.
In the end, after the bread and butter, or at least bread and butter luxury makers acquired the exotic makers, they had to inject some financial commonsense with platform and driveline sharing.
Previously, BMW supplied engines to Rolls Royce.
VW AG outbid BMW AG to buy out the Rolls Royce auto division from Rolls Royce parent which suffered losses due to one of its new jet engines.
However, BMW AG cleverly bought the name Rolls Royce from the RR parent company for only some 40 million pounds back in 1997 etc.
Thus, VW must call their purchase Bentley Motors.
Back in the 1930's, RR purchased Bentley, because the latter went into liquidation & receivership.
Bentley's are actually share platforms & drivelines with Audi A8 etc.
Rolls Royce share BMW 7 Series platforms and engines.
This is what we are talking about.
Reskinning Crown/GS, E Class/CLS, Bentleys/A8's and RR/7 Series.
Platform and engine sharing.
Costs money.
However, often sells in small numbers.
Meanwhile bread & butter Camry, Corolla, RAV4, Highlander and Landcruisers rake it in - due to sheer volume of sales.
PS
I'm all for sharing platforms and sharing drivelines to produce multiple derivative models to make this world a more interesting place, however they must do that with "care", otherwise with expensive luxury = low volumes, profits are hard to come by - compared to bread & butter Camries, Corollas, RAV4, Highlanders and Landcruisers etc, which have only a small profit margin per vehicle, but sell in very large numbers to more than make up for the smaller profit margins/vehicle.
Allen K used the right word - ROI - Return on Investment...
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 05-03-18 at 02:30 PM.
05-03-18, 02:04 PM
#377
It’s official. According to
, the GS sedan will be discontinued in Europe:
The fate of the GS has been an ongoing concern since rumors of its cancelationstarted last year. Lexus Europe is the first to make a public announcement, and it’s currently unknown if and when other regions will follow suit.
Facebook Post
Since the launch of the first generation GS in 1993, we have sold about 74,000 units in Europe, including 20,000 GS hybrids. This year, sales in Europe amount at 1,494 units (Jan-Oct), a decrease of 20% vs. Jan-Oct 2016.
New development work would have been required in order for the GS to comply with the forthcoming change in emission regulations that will become mandatory in Europe by 1st September 2018. Given the fact that the GS is positioned at the higher end of the E-premium saloon segment where sales perspectives are limited, we have evaluated that such investment could not be justified.
New development work would have been required in order for the GS to comply with the forthcoming change in emission regulations that will become mandatory in Europe by 1st September 2018. Given the fact that the GS is positioned at the higher end of the E-premium saloon segment where sales perspectives are limited, we have evaluated that such investment could not be justified.
05-03-18, 02:30 PM
#378
Lexus Fanatic
It’s official. According to a recent post on the Lexus UK Facebook page, the GS sedan will be discontinued in Europe:
The fate of the GS has been an ongoing concern since rumors of its cancelationstarted last year. Lexus Europe is the first to make a public announcement, and it’s currently unknown if and when other regions will follow suit.
The fate of the GS has been an ongoing concern since rumors of its cancelationstarted last year. Lexus Europe is the first to make a public announcement, and it’s currently unknown if and when other regions will follow suit.
05-03-18, 03:12 PM
#379
Lexus Test Driver
It’s official. According to a recent post on the Lexus UK Facebook page, the GS sedan will be discontinued in Europe:
The fate of the GS has been an ongoing concern since rumors of its cancelationstarted last year. Lexus Europe is the first to make a public announcement, and it’s currently unknown if and when other regions will follow suit.
The fate of the GS has been an ongoing concern since rumors of its cancelationstarted last year. Lexus Europe is the first to make a public announcement, and it’s currently unknown if and when other regions will follow suit.
Only time will tell if they are actually planning to remove the Lexus GS from every market. If they are, they are pretty much giving up a section of the market that defines luxury. Because the Lexus ES will never be able to compete with the 5 Series or E-Class. Hell - they aren't even in the same class or tier of cars. The Lexus ES is comparable some Buicks, Lincolns, and maybe the Acura RL.
05-03-18, 04:22 PM
#380
Very true Bippu.
05-03-18, 04:56 PM
#381
Lexus Fanatic
Lexus choosing to focus on the ES instead of developing cars like the GS means that Lexus is no longer a full lineup luxury manufacturer and has abandoned all intentions of trying to compete with companies like Mercedes, BMW and Audi in all but their entry level segments. Like Acura.
Another reality is it means the Japanese luxury experiment is dead 30 years in. They are ceding that they cannot compete.
Toyota has more than enough resources to design and build both the ES and the GS. In an increasingly crossover driven world, I would like to see a proper luxury crossover (as in not a FWD transverse platform engineered luxury Toyota). Something on the GA-L platform that would compete with the X5, Q7, GLE, Range Rovers etc.
Very confident now that I am driving my last Lexus. Hyundai and the Koreans have more courage, so lets see if they can carry on the torch of an asian world class carmaker.
Last edited by SW17LS; 05-03-18 at 05:01 PM.
05-03-18, 05:51 PM
#382
Lexus Fanatic
As for Genesis. Eventually they will need to offer a FWD midsize platform to become more competitive.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 05-03-18 at 06:09 PM.
05-03-18, 05:56 PM
#383
Lexus Fanatic
Genesis says they won't, personally I don't think they will need to. What they need are some crossovers.
05-03-18, 06:08 PM
#384
Lexus Test Driver
BMW and Mercedes seem to do just fine without a FWD midsize platform. Why would they offer an inferior platform if they could offer AWD in their current lineup? Genesis will probably just include RWD based crossovers with AWD like rest of the luxury brands.
05-03-18, 06:10 PM
#385
Lexus Fanatic
BMW and Mercedes do have FWD platforms. They are starting to emerge in the North American market. New X2 is awesome from the looks and design standpoint
05-03-18, 06:14 PM
#386
Lexus Fanatic
05-03-18, 06:16 PM
#387
Lexus Fanatic
Quite frankly, I'm really feeling the opposite of enthusiastic about Lexus right now. Right now, the only vehicle they offer I would be excited about buying is the LC. Thats it. Nothing on the horizon for me to look forward to either. By comparison I can name several Mercedes, BMW or Audi models.
Genesis says they won't, personally I don't think they will need to. What they need are some crossovers.
Genesis says they won't, personally I don't think they will need to. What they need are some crossovers.
05-03-18, 06:19 PM
#388
Lexus Fanatic
Genesis needs a midsize FWD platform to compete with a Lexus ES/RX type car. It’s about making money and profit vs having the proper riding chassis IMO. BMW and Mercedes already offer FWD platform based models in North America.
05-03-18, 06:24 PM
#389
Lexus Fanatic
I don’t think RWD is going away at Lexus. It’s just that to make money in the midsize, mid priced segment is going to be more difficult than ever. Prices are going up and Trump is ruining things in North America. A recession is eventually going to happen, it will be massive. Gas prices are going up and will stay high. Food prices are already very high in the US compared to Canada. So I don’t think a $40K-$60K imported from Japan is going to be feasible. I do get what you are trying to say though.
Doesn't have to be imported from Japan. I don't have an issue with them being built here like some do.
They really don't need to. This is what people miss, they don't have to make money and profit the same way a stand alone marque has to, same is true of Lexus vs Toyota.
05-03-18, 06:57 PM
#390
Lexus Fanatic
I think most Americans do not realize how much pieces have increased in the US. I have lived most of my adult life going back and forth on a weekly basis from Canada (M-F) and the US (weekends) to see how prices in the US have just increased and increased. To give some perspective, we paid about $60K US back in 01 for our LX, the Canadian price was closer to to $100K at the time. Today, it’s about $105K Canadian vs about $95K US. I was just down in the Southern US last week, a combo for fast food or a bottle salad dressing is now the same price in US dollars as it is on Canada if not more in some cases. Back to cars, a new modern GS should be closer to $60K US starting price (if imported from Japan) but people are not going to pay for that IMO which is why I figure Lexus should just make the best $65K top end ES they possibly can. Toyota is not going to build US built RWD models for the American market, which would help get the cost down.