g81981

A speculation video on the 2019 Toyota Supra. Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/v/OxTlE1jSjOU&lc=z22hffqoay3igroxz04t1aokgsqvbxqns1jwysx13xbprk0h00410.1512089177962519

UDel

I think it is pretty safe to say from what we have been seeing and hearing the new Supra is going to be disappointing and not anywhere near the Corvette killer/competitor the last one was.

g81981

Yeps. No Corvette killer here....hopefully it's even a Cayman killer.

Rhambler

This doesn't even deserve the Supra name in my opinion. It's more BMW than Toyota.

Likely BMW engine: check. Likely BWM electronics and idrive: check. Likely ZF transmission found in many European cars, including BMW: check. Likely BMW shifter, ***** and buttons: check.

It's a sad frankenstein that will probably be slow. BMW's are typically faster than advertised, but leave it to Toyota to somehow make it slower than advertised as that's their forte.

jadu

iTrader: (42)

interesting information. some of things the youtube video touched base on were discussed in this thread:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...new-supra.html

Kahn mentioned the Gazoo will not make it stateside and will be rebranded as TRD. I'm curious to know the extent of Gazoo's R&D and engineering or if they are just working is making the final tweaks but it sounds like Gazoo has full control of this. No 5.0L NA Supra tho

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I don't believe this guy. Until proven otherwise, IMO the powerplant will be the LS500 3.5L TT V6.

webra

Lexus is as good as Toyota at it too, and now look at the competition...

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

I think the guy in the video got a few things right but he's speculating on some things such as the engine as Hoovey said. No one knows for sure what the engine or transmission options will actually be yet despite what that leak from BMW says. None of that has been confirmed or denied by any other source. We may see a B58 3.0L inline-six twin turbo or we may see Toyota's 943F V6 twin turbo engine.

Jadu, at least one news article and one leak in the form of a Toyota exec who spoke to FJ and 4Runner owners mentioned that since Americans aren't familiar with Gazoo Racing it was all but certain that the existing (and currently stagnant) Toyota Racing Development brand name would serve to market their products.

It's unnecessary but possible the new Supra could be marketed as the "TRD Supra" rather than just "Toyota Supra". Also, an article from a couple of days ago suggested (or just teased) that the new Supra would probably be called a Supra but it was only one name in the final running.

Everyone is expecting a car called a "Supra" that lives up to at least the spirit and character of a Supra MKIV and Toyota has trademarked that model name worldwide so... personally I think that is just meant to throw people off and keep them guessing.

As for that car itself I have consistently been getting the impression that it would be powerful, fast and fun to drive with an emphasis on rear-wheel grip but not that it would be a 500hp+ Corvette ZR1 and GTR killer out of the box. Its stock power level in 6cyl turbo form isn't supposed to be astronomical. Hopefully the engine design is very strong through if it is not a BMW B58 (because we already know a lot about that engine's strength's and weaknesses) and hopefully the transmissions available are strong.

The FR-S / 86 / BRZ was built to a very tight price point using some existing but reworked bits from the Toyota and Subaru parts bin. Apart from the projected stock power level I don't think this model was constrained nearly as much.

One thing is very likely... it won't have a manual transmission from Getrag. Toyota deeply upset Getrag back in the 90's with how dealers were not trained to properly diagnose actual gearbox issues from quirks and noises that were just part of the V160 and V161 design. Getrag just last year stopped making those transmissions for Toyota and they stopped supplying the parts right when the contract ended. Meanwhile the same 233 gearbox design variants are still made for Nissan to resupply '99-'02 R34 GT-R's and to BMW for their 850CSi even though their contracts have already expired. If Toyota had smoothed over that relationship with Getrag to get another of their super strong gearboxes for the new Supra the abrupt discontinuation of all V160/161 gearboxes and support parts would not have happened.

I still hope there is a manual gearbox available on the top spec turbo model but I would not expect it to come from Getrag if it is offered.

With the Supra MKV being absent from the L.A. Auto Show and the Tokyo Motor Show before it, no one currently knows any fresh news. The hope is that it will finally show up at the Geneva Motor Show.

I hope the reason is that the team working on this car wanted more time to get it right.

rxonmymind

I believe Mr. Toyota himself said he's not going to get into a horsepower war so you an be 100% certain Toyota will NEVER come out with anything 559+hp etc. Their not competing on that level and will leave that to BMW, Lamborghini, Porsche etc. Different philosophy.

UDel

I don't think people were expecting a 559hp Supra. We were expecting a worthy successor in the same category as the last one, which would be a Corvette/911 competitor putting out around 450-475hp in top form. It should have been based on the LC500 with its general looks and stance if it was a worthy successor, not a lower end BMW roadster. It should have a twin turbo V8 or some Toyota 6 cylinder powerplant, no base 4cyl or inline 6 from a 3 series. This new Supra looks more like a 370Z, Infiniti Q60, Genesis coupe, S5, maybe base Cayman, non V8 Mustang/Camaro competitor.

RNM GS3

If Supra has less than 450hp it will not sell.
All its competition will have more - Mustang GT, Camaro SS, Corvette, M4, GTR etc.

It needs to have at least 450hp and top out around $60k with a base of $45k

Rhambler

Yeah I agree, but based on past precedent, Toyota/Lexus HP AND Torque numbers are overrated. I.e., they don’t translate into a fast car.

It has to have high HP numbers AND be legitametly fast, not Toyota/Lexus saying it’s fast when it’s actually not, but REAL-WORLD, underrated, outside of the lab fast.

RNM GS3

Original Supra was really underrated - it was pushing about 300hp at the wheels stock.

Toyota better know Supra's customer base - they care little about handling and all about making crazy HP #s. So if they bring a small, light coupe with under 400hp - it will collect dust along with new NSX.
Acura completely got the NSX market wrong and what the owners wanted.

Rhambler

Yes, that Acura is a good example. There’s no “wow” factor. It doesn’t have good numbers considering the price and it’s not fast (again considering the price). If that thing pumped 650 HP, it would get more press and people (who can afford such cars) would be interested. Instead, gigantic flop that should be priced at $75k M550i range to begin with.

In my opinion, the Supra has to have 400+ LEGITIMATE HP. Reach 60 in UNDER 4 seconds, start at $40k and gigantic winner. If it can only do a legitimate 4.5 seconds, then $35k.

They’re already far behind in the game. They can’t come out with a car where everyone has already did that and for less. They need to one up or FLOP.

However, if I were to guess, they won’t one up and it will flop.

RNM GS3

New Mustang GT with 10speed is doing 0-60 in 4sec so the new Supra has to be at least that fast especially considering they probably will not update for 10yrs or however long it lasts.

Personally i want it to be awesome as I always wanted a Supra and would trade in my BRZ but it needs to have a manual or atleast a DCT.