My0gr81

That day was when the heavy rain warning was in effect, right? If so, could be moisture affected a sensor or a connection somewhere. Once dried, the problem went away. Should have left a code though, that is strange.

MattyG

I thought of that too. From what I understand the 4Runner isn't shy around water. Most of the main fuse and ECU boxes are inside the vehicle so that would leave a wheel speed sensor.

It is the most frustrating type of troubleshooting because it now means the vehicle is back to square one and becomes a type of test lab to try and recreate the issue. You lose faith in a vehicle, you don't want to drive it, especially in challenging conditions - which is what it was the intended purpose.

That's the bad scenerio. Now you have a "ghost" issue that's got to be tracked down. Depending on what they did, something might have just fixed itself, especially if they took it indoors and left it there overnight to warm up in a heated repair garage before the techs came in next a.m. to look at it. No way to know what caused the initial problem.

They should have at least connected to the Toyota diagnostic plug under the hood run Toyota diagnostics. And then physically checked all the wheels and sensors on each corner. You mentioned the dash was "lit up". This is usually an indication that the ECU threw a code that was bad enough to put this vehicle into limp mode and that means a truck operating on just enough to get to the side of the road or drive to the nearest parking spot. That mode disables, VSC and TRACS on Toyota's because those systems may not work properly so hence the warning lights to alert the driver, so that's why the dash lights.

Johnhav430

I know as consumers we obviously feel much better when there is a problem, and a resolution. Otherwise there's that "trust" aspect.....

imho, I can only speak from the BMW world where I have the dealer software. If a vehicle stalls for no reason, it often lights up like a Christmas tree--but the reason was not the root cause, it pertains to the loss of the traction, stability. ABS--this resets as soon as the vehicle restarts, and moves. So there are no "shadow" codes related to the failure, necessarily. Example, if you have a stick, and stall the car, would you expect the vehicle to store a code, and what code?

My buddy just got rid of the Q5 for this very reason, wife is on the road about 90% of the time for her work, they could not trust the Q5 after 2 dealers could not find any issues, the 2nd dealer kept the vehicle 1 1/2 wks.

My feeling is if the vehicle is under warranty, just keep taking it back, you have the right to do so. And if something happens but the vehicle is still running, drive right over to Toyota WITHOUT AN APPOINTMENT so they can diagnose it without it having been shut off. Good luck...

Toys4RJill

Yes very, very rainy that night.

So, the service department has received instructions from Toyota corporate. They have order all engine and transmissions fluids to be drained and both components to be flushed. Never seen a situation likes this before.

I am wondering about carbon build up?

Johnhav430

imho that doesn't seem to be very methodical, do they have some RCA that they can provide? Can you imagine the tech having to do that, for a car dying, plus a tranny should be drained and filled, not flushed, Toyotas have a very specific method based on temp and a chart. 1st drain fill leaves 53% old. 2nd 31%. 3rd 17%. 4th, 5th, 6th I think there is 5% left. Well that's LS430 but I believe all the new Toyotas have the sealed trannies so the % could be different. I guess if this is Tahara or Dallas saying so, another dealer is going to get the same instruction...I see a Pilot trade-in on the horizon....

carbon, does the 4Runner have a DI motor...

Toys4RJill

what is RCA?

mmarshall

When a transmission is actually flushed, rather than a simple fluid-change, it has to be done VERY carefully. Too little flush-pressure won't get the dirt out, and too much can damage or weaken seals/gaskets and cause even more leaks. And, on a very old or very dirty transmission, it is perhaps best not done at all......holes in the old worn seals and gaskets can open up like Swiss Cheese. But I'm sure the Toyota engineers know that.

Johnhav430

rca meaning root cause analysis....it's not public anymore, but about 10 yrs. ago anybody could download BMWs decision trees, they were in a visio format, and the dealers were to follow the process to determine course of action. The specific one I downloaded was related to N54 hp and lpfp issues....so I figure Toyota Motor has to have the same thing. What makes them say "replace all fluids," this seems to be almost a blind action?

I'm not sure if the 4Runner is like other Toyotas, meaning no dipstick/sealed. There is a very specific procedure and the temp of the fluid has to be within a range, because WS expands quite a bit with temp. My indie explained it all to me when my car was on a lift, he said you can do this at home, but it would be challenging....

Wouldn't you know there are special tools such that can compensate for various temps made by Toyota? This video corroborates everything my indie told me....


At any rate, even if the 4Runner has a dipstick, many believe that a drain/fill is the only safe way to deal with an auto. But I highly doubt the Toyota dealer feels like having you come back 6X to exchange all the fluid via a drain/fill.....I would prefer they don't touch it if it were my car....

disclaimer: I am new to automatics but I have had 3 drain/fills performed on the LS430 which essentially leaves 17% old fluid in the tranny. The indie showed me what came out on #2, i.e. 53% old, at 86k. It was black, but not burnt.

edit: p.s. this type of guy in the video, he's the type of person we all want working on our cars when we can't DIY...actually care about the procedure. I do believe my Lexus indie is of the same nature, I can walk into the shop with my car in the air and he'll explain everything. One time the owner came and said we better let him get to work he'll never finish if you keep talking to him lol

Toys4RJill

really could not tell you.

Sulu

It may not be damaged sensors that caused the problem but confused sensors. Perhaps it was the perfect storm that confused a number of sensors to trigger, causing a number of safety systems to activate, and eventually causing a overload of conflicting signals in the ECU. When sensors trigger and safety systems activate, warning lights will light up on the dashboard. My thought is that that could explain the problems seen that stormy night while not triggering any codes.

In my 2015 ES, for instance, light snowflakes can cause the forward collision sensors to register an obstacle in front of me, when there is nothing. In my car, the collision sensor only registers an obstacle but if it was connected to an adaptive cruise control, it could cause my car to brake to keep distance to the obstacle.

Toys4RJill

Thans Sulu. I think it's a gltich on the sensors somewhere that got too wet.

2013FSport

iTrader: (2)

One possible reason for a fluid flush is not to replinish the fluids but to inspect for water intrusion as a possible/maybe that the vehicle went through some deep water crossing. In short, they are on a fact finding mission as the onboard hardware is not telling a story that leads to resolution... Like was mentioned above, was water intrusion a factor and now with it gone and no obvious faults, well, what can we prove?

PS not saying your folks drove it down a canal, but the dealer doesn't know that.

Plausable, yes.

Toys4RJill

Ahah. Very plausible. Thank you.

Johnhav430

If this is the case, would Toyota void the warranty? I know that on many SUVs there are warnings in the manual regarding using car washes that can blow out the transfer case seals etc. But the 4Runner is a real truck, although not a Land Cruiser or MB G class. One would expect it's perfectly ok to drive a 4Runner in heavy rain or heavy snow, in an urban environment....Toyota seems to handling this oddly...fix it!

JDR76

What are you proposing they fix if they can't figure out what went wrong? What should they be doing that wouldn't be "handling it oddly"?