Diesels in America
07-31-16, 08:22 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
There is no true market for a diesel LX or Toyota SUV in the North American market. Some believe that there is a preceived market and there a lot of people who so called "say" they would buy a Toyota but it reality this not gonna happen.
The cost of making, getting it passed emissions, and then selling a diesel is going to be cost prohibitive. Way too cost prohibitive. Toyota is all about profits and a diesel option for a Tacoma or 4Runner is going to kill their niche.
Now, a diesel Tundra would work only in the sense that Toyota is trying keep up with the other manufacturers. They would offer one just to say they do it and would probably go the Nissan route where they offer a diesel made by a third party. But a diesel Tundra will cost big big bucks, so likely I cannot see it happening unless Toyota goes HD with the next gen of Tundra.
The cost of making, getting it passed emissions, and then selling a diesel is going to be cost prohibitive. Way too cost prohibitive. Toyota is all about profits and a diesel option for a Tacoma or 4Runner is going to kill their niche.
Now, a diesel Tundra would work only in the sense that Toyota is trying keep up with the other manufacturers. They would offer one just to say they do it and would probably go the Nissan route where they offer a diesel made by a third party. But a diesel Tundra will cost big big bucks, so likely I cannot see it happening unless Toyota goes HD with the next gen of Tundra.
07-31-16, 09:19 AM
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
The R&D is done. Around the globe Toyota offers diesel suv's and trucks with a urea system similar to BMW and MB. Yet they do not import the product into the US.
http://blog.toyota.co.uk/what-is-adb...y-do-we-use-it
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/25/t...g-light-clean/
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015...22-toyota.html
http://blog.toyota.co.uk/what-is-adb...y-do-we-use-it
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/25/t...g-light-clean/
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015...22-toyota.html
07-31-16, 02:23 PM
#6
Government regulations have made diesel non-viable in mass market passenger vehicles in the United States. Not only is diesel more expensive here than all over the world, the air quality regulations here make it to where you have to put all kinds of expensive cataylists, urea injection, etc to clean up the tailpipe emissions. Thus you either lose a wad of money selling a diesel car/truck/suv here, you charge a stupid amount for the diesel option(Chevy Colorado, heavy duty pickups diesel engine is a $8500 option), or you cheat the regulations and sell cheap cars without expensive urea injection and other emissions control devices(VW's solution)
That being said, I would go for a diesel engine option on a Land Cruiser, Tacoma or 4 Runner if it was less than $3000 as a stand alone option. IE don't force me to buy a loaded model to then get the option of the $3000 diesel(that's what Chevy does with the Colorado diesel)
That being said, I would go for a diesel engine option on a Land Cruiser, Tacoma or 4 Runner if it was less than $3000 as a stand alone option. IE don't force me to buy a loaded model to then get the option of the $3000 diesel(that's what Chevy does with the Colorado diesel)
Last edited by Aron9000; 07-31-16 at 02:27 PM.
07-31-16, 07:43 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Government regulations have made diesel non-viable in mass market passenger vehicles in the United States. Not only is diesel more expensive here than all over the world, the air quality regulations here make it to where you have to put all kinds of expensive cataylists, urea injection, etc to clean up the tailpipe emissions. Thus you either lose a wad of money selling a diesel car/truck/suv here, you charge a stupid amount for the diesel option(Chevy Colorado, heavy duty pickups diesel engine is a $8500 option), or you cheat the regulations and sell cheap cars without expensive urea injection and other emissions control devices(VW's solution)
That being said, I would go for a diesel engine option on a Land Cruiser, Tacoma or 4 Runner if it was less than $3000 as a stand alone option. IE don't force me to buy a loaded model to then get the option of the $3000 diesel(that's what Chevy does with the Colorado diesel)
That being said, I would go for a diesel engine option on a Land Cruiser, Tacoma or 4 Runner if it was less than $3000 as a stand alone option. IE don't force me to buy a loaded model to then get the option of the $3000 diesel(that's what Chevy does with the Colorado diesel)
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07-31-16, 08:08 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Government regulations have made diesel non-viable in mass market passenger vehicles in the United States. Not only is diesel more expensive here than all over the world, the air quality regulations here make it to where you have to put all kinds of expensive cataylists, urea injection, etc to clean up the tailpipe emissions. Thus you either lose a wad of money selling a diesel car/truck/suv here, you charge a stupid amount for the diesel option(Chevy Colorado, heavy duty pickups diesel engine is a $8500 option), or you cheat the regulations and sell cheap cars without expensive urea injection and other emissions control devices(VW's solution)
That being said, I would go for a diesel engine option on a Land Cruiser, Tacoma or 4 Runner if it was less than $3000 as a stand alone option. IE don't force me to buy a loaded model to then get the option of the $3000 diesel(that's what Chevy does with the Colorado diesel)
That being said, I would go for a diesel engine option on a Land Cruiser, Tacoma or 4 Runner if it was less than $3000 as a stand alone option. IE don't force me to buy a loaded model to then get the option of the $3000 diesel(that's what Chevy does with the Colorado diesel)
The 4.5 V8 diesel only really stacks up well against the 4.6 and 4.7 engines. The you have the add in the insane price premium. Makes little sense for the 4.5.
07-31-16, 10:28 PM
#9
^I'd trade off 100hp and 79ft-lb of torque if the Land Cruiser diesel got an honest 25mpg in town/flooring it all the time. And better than 30 on the highway. I'm sure you can convert Liters per 100km or whatever they measure fuel economy in Europe and the Gulf states to MPG, but I really don't feel like wasting my time figuring that out since they'll never sell a diesel Land Cruiser(or Prado/Lexus GX) in this country. I know the diesel Range Rovers get double the mpg of the supercharged gas models and have just as much torque(not as much hp).
08-01-16, 05:54 AM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
^I'd trade off 100hp and 79ft-lb of torque if the Land Cruiser diesel got an honest 25mpg in town/flooring it all the time. And better than 30 on the highway. I'm sure you can convert Liters per 100km or whatever they measure fuel economy in Europe and the Gulf states to MPG, but I really don't feel like wasting my time figuring that out since they'll never sell a diesel Land Cruiser(or Prado/Lexus GX) in this country. I know the diesel Range Rovers get double the mpg of the supercharged gas models and have just as much torque(not as much hp).
08-01-16, 06:17 AM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
^I'd trade off 100hp and 79ft-lb of torque if the Land Cruiser diesel got an honest 25mpg in town/flooring it all the time. And better than 30 on the highway. I'm sure you can convert Liters per 100km or whatever they measure fuel economy in Europe and the Gulf states to MPG, but I really don't feel like wasting my time figuring that out since they'll never sell a diesel Land Cruiser(or Prado/Lexus GX) in this country. I know the diesel Range Rovers get double the mpg of the supercharged gas models and have just as much torque(not as much hp).
08-01-16, 06:25 AM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
Torque, especially low-RPM torque, in general, is more important to most American (and American driving styles) then HP. Torque determines acceleration, towing capacity, and hill-climbing ability without downshifts. HP, on the other hand, is more of a factor in overcoming air resistance and determining ultimate top speed....
08-01-16, 06:37 AM
#13
Instructor
Thread Starter
I started this thread because I would take a diesel GX over a BMW x5 or ML but my choice has been made for me. An SUV with substantial towing capacity and massive cruising range (i.e. the diesels Toyotas on all other continents) would be nice.
08-01-16, 09:51 AM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
And a 280hp V8 diesel which Toyota currently offers in the Land Cruiser in world markets would get laughed at by buyers in the USA. Especially if the vehicle was close $100k US plus MSRP which most people are generally playing for the LC V8 diesel in other markets.
08-02-16, 07:46 AM
#15
Instructor
Thread Starter
But you would never get a Toyota diesel in the US that would outperform the USA gas marketed models. Take the Land Cruiser, the 4.5 is not a replacement or alternative for the 5.7 gas engine. The 5.7 will out tow, out haul, out perform the 4.5 in every single way except MPG. Tow capacity, 0-60 times, payload are all superior in the 5.7.
And a 280hp V8 diesel which Toyota currently offers in the Land Cruiser in world markets would get laughed at by buyers in the USA. Especially if the vehicle was close $100k US plus MSRP which most people are generally playing for the LC V8 diesel in other markets.
And a 280hp V8 diesel which Toyota currently offers in the Land Cruiser in world markets would get laughed at by buyers in the USA. Especially if the vehicle was close $100k US plus MSRP which most people are generally playing for the LC V8 diesel in other markets.
http://www.motoring.com.au/lexus-lx-...exusToyotalxLC
Last edited by superdenso; 08-02-16 at 07:59 AM.