AWD makes sense on a FWD car if only to help mitigate some of the less desirable characteristics of a FWD car.

 

Thank you for that...truthfully, NOT a Ford fan overall, aside from the Super Duty Diesel F250, the Mustang GT 5.0 and Shelby GT350 ...and I worked on Fords for years, right alongside other domestic brands in our fleet in which I drew my conclusions from 20 years of fleet experience...And this isn't at all a scientific, thorough "road test"...just what my experiences with two different Continental models were. I only drove both aforementioned cars in-town AND on the interstate in different regional areas. There were no twisties driven sad to say, just some sweepers. But I can't imagine being disappointed with the car in that area, for what its intended purpose is.

Again, admittedly, I have a HUGE prejudice against FWD platforms, for many of the same reasons SW15LS cites. So i understand the indignation of some, somewhat. But I'm not one to buy to impress someone else, or seek their approval either.

Granted, in lieu of my bias against FWD-based platforms, the AWD platform in the Continental is very tough and dependable. Proven. Let's move on then.

YES an ardent car enthusiast here- both foreign and domestic. I do my homework and generally NEVER make blind purchases. Personally, I would NOT call the Continental a 'Huge' vehicle. Just for grins, let's see which car is bigger...and let's remember the CT6 is NOT Cadillac's BIG flagship sedan. You'll see the Continental is 2.6" shorter (also with a 4.5" shorter wheelbase), half inch taller, 8.3" wider (but rear track is virtually identical- the Linc mirrors are a big part of that difference and also 2" wider front shoulder room in the Conti interior), than the CT6:

CT6 Platinum 3.0tt AWD: Length: 204.0" Wheelbase 122.4" Height 57.9" Overall Width: 74.0" Weight: 4,350 lbs

Conti Reserve 3.0tt AWD: Length: 201.4" Wheelbase: 117.9" Height: 58.5" Overall Width: 82.3" Weight: 4,224 lbs

When I decided to drive the Continental, much online research and comparisons were done already, I threw my biases out the window to see just how the car presented and conducted itself as a package behind the wheel on its own merits (or not). I was in traffic on I-80, and needing to get to an offramp, found myself faced with having to tuck in behind about 8-12 vehicles, 4 of which were semi's; or bolt ahead three cars and take the lead of which there was a generous gap, I chose the latter and punched it. Like a panther pouncing fwd was the sensation of the 3.0tt unleashing boost, and again, I was being very kind to the dealer's car. There was much, MUCH more on tap. I also flipped a rather impromptu u-ie in traffic and not only was the turn radius pleasing, but the car didn't sway or beat you up executing change of direction. Just whipped around quick and gracefully and we went the other way. Excellent brakes, too.

The car felt exceptionally planted on the road, and did not feel heavy or cumbersome. Again, ZERO torque-steer (in either the FWD or AWD)...amazing for a FWD platform. Overall, I assessed this car for what it is...not what it isn't ...or what I wanted it to be. (Again, the next version will be RWD.) So I did a few online builds to compare:

CT6 Platinum AWD 3.0tt as spec'd $89,240 MSRP

Conti Reserve AWD 3.0tt as spec'd $76,112 MSRP

What tickles your fancy? That's what this is about...not about "I'm right" because such and such. The Continental also has a few things the CT6 Platinum SHOULD have (with its $13,000k uptick), but doesn't. Soft close/open doors and trunklid for starters; thought the first Linc prod run does not have HUD, build 2 will, and it's already in the revised March 2017 owners manual. Though the Linc is lacking an optional rear seat A/V entertainment package, there is a very robust luxury rear seating package...which I optioned. A couple of Ipads, headphones, and the lacking option is moot.

Some will sniff disapprovingly or pound their chest because it's FWD based. Or for whatever reason. "You should care because...." Please... Fine, don't buy it and move on. I still feel that a RWD-based design is superior in general except for inclement weather. And I much prefer a longitudinal mounted engine, but the days of doing my own work save maybe for oil changes, is way behind me.

When I got behind the wheel of either Linc car driven, we started the car and headed down the road, I found myself accepting the car for what it is...and my biases didn't matter anymore. I just didn't care about them. Not with this particular car, anyway. And I could see supporting that with a purchase or lease. Especially if it means a V2 RWD version is in the pipeline.

So maybe for some the car is an offense. Or a waste of money. Maybe not. But for well less than $80k in clams fully loaded, this is quite a Domestic luxury offering...with more than just a bit of anger under the hood. Some people get so hung up on specs and biases that they miss the bigger picture of the item, like pixel-peepers in photography. One person's loss is oftentimes another's gain. So be it.

A great urban & hwy domestic Luxury car, and with AWD, something to take to Tahoe if I don't want to drive a truck. Sure I like the CT6 Platinum AWD 3.0tt and have since its introduction, but that @$13k price delta has to be earned...and I'm watching the reports of real transmission and other problems very carefully. I'm convinced they can conquer them, but not paying to be a guinea pig, either. One might rather have 6 dependable gears, than 8 with headaches for a bigger price. Or a clear line of sight and not have that B pillar right in the way where you have to lean fwd and peer around it. Everybody is different. I'm seeing there may be a svc bulletin (trans svc, not sure if its software) that may have fixed the CT6's 1-2 shift lurch and pause . Waiting to see if person reports success.

Meanwhile, if I want a canyon-carver sedan, I'll take the 2017 Panamera Turbo. Seriously. In Volcano Grey, please.

 

Says who? How about different areas of the country where the weather merits it? Pretty broad brush there...

 

Says me lol. Having driven FWD based AWD cars I feel that they feel better than their FWD counterparts. I'd much rather have say an AWD Acura than a FWD Acura. They drive better IMHO. Nothing to do with traction.

Look, I'm not trying to say you shouldn't buy whatever you want, I've made liberal use of caveats to my own humble opinion, and caveats that understanding the benefits is an important part of being a enthusiast (which you do), and that one can decide if they care about those benefits for a particular application is. Bottom line is I care in this application. I'm not spending that kind of money for a FWD car. No interest. I've driven several of them, it's a nice car, but not for me. It's not about impressing others, it's about impressing myself. I could never be truly satisfied with the car. If you like it and you want it, Godspeed. I personally think a lot of buyers at that price level will agree with me, and that the Conti will wind up being mostly a livery purchase which I've also said before.

As for the delta between the CT6 and Continental. Like I said I would not spend more than $67k MSRP or so maybe for either car. $69k I'm into a G90 V6. Much better car than ether IMHO, more refined, better interior build and layout, etc. I'd be interested to know if you have driven the G90 or the CT6. Don't go to a loaded CT6, it's too much money.

 

Ah common ground, brudda! I too would certainly would desire an AWD Acura over FWD. As a matter of fact, I've only owned but two FWD cars in decades of driving...worked on many of them, though.
No, I have NOT driven the G90. Yes, I have driven the CT6 Platinum AWD3.0tt...wonderful car! My complaint about the B pillar position in it was a result of two test drives (same exact car, btw)...but overall, the car is great. However, I found the Linc Reserve even quieter, surprisingly.

The Cadillac 3.0tt engine is an amazing mill. It sounds, IMO, decidedly refined and 'German', if you will- both mechanically with the hood up, and at the rear exhaust. Real refined. I will admit some severe bias regarding the G90. This is nothing personal, bro so please don't take it that way. I'm loving the dialogue. The Koreans have the ability to knock this car outta the park! Features-wise they have to a large degree; but overall, the car strikes me as IMO, let me put it this way, having a severe identity crisis, and the presentation suffers as a result. Those that will move towards this car in adoration I think nothing less of. I like certain flavors of ice cream...others may turn their nose up at them. HEHEHE.

Once again, seeing it firsthand can change everything...but I saw a few G90's in traffic close-by enough for a good look-over a few times, and didn't like it at all. Maybe another look would help, but sadly, ALL IMHO, I found it somewhat disjointed and repelling. It's like it needs its own identity that it hasn't found yet...it's bigger (& significantly HEAVIER) than either the CT6 or the Continental, and though it's very well-equipped for the price point, it just doesn't do anything for me. Blech.

When it comes to Luxury-branding & recognition, one thing that is an unfortunate truth is price point- and perceptions that go with that. People of means will likely not be interested in the G90...we have many here on the forum who have jumped ship from MB or BMW to Lexus...and if Hyundai wants part of that marketshare & that status cache, IMO from a Marketing perspective, the $70k price tag isn't going to win Luxury Classe accolades...and in reality Hyundai/Genesis just hasn't earned the respect YET to command that, either. Resale later will likely be hideous as a result as well. (Cadillac has work to do in that dept as well) The G90 may well be the best-equipped car for $70k...but does it have the soul, the presence, that 'something' to capture the hearts of buyers? ...time will tell.

A fully loaded LS will easily cross the $100k mark and then some...which puts it in price territory with loaded MB S-class and BMW 7-series candidates. We both know that either of those cars loaded, without the AMG or M series uptick, can still command upwards of near $120K or so. And so it is with that, that I personally, maybe not you and that's fine, but I could justify the loaded CT6 3.0tt for $89k and would not desire the un-Platinum models...fully-loaded please.

Thanks for the chat, brudda. Have a great day, SW15LS!

 

while i like rwd, the difference in driving experience between rwd and fwd for 99% of drivers out there is ZERO because a) fwd drive trains and suspensions have improved so much in recent years, and b) drivers simply don't (or can't due to traffic) drive aggressively enough to notice the difference. fwd has typically offered a small benefit in snow due to the engine being over the drive wheels, but as has been pointed out, there's a downside too due to torque steering and under steering which is very undesirable when traction is bad. improvements in electronics, software, weight distribution, and tires, have made rwd cars much better in snow. again the differences to almost all drivers is ZERO.

anyone driving a cuv/suv likely doesn't even know which wheels are driving the car most of the time. do you think (non-awd) RX buyers care it's fwd? lol

my jeep is rwd (or optional 4x4) which is nice, but some other vehicles i test drove were fwd and would have been just fine. yeah i don't have snow here, but i'd feel the same even in areas that do get snow.

now awd or 4 wheel drive is a different story. that provides a REAL benefit in traction in rain, mud, snow, etc. AND in performance driving. again electronics and massive improvements to drive trains means awd has improved a load in recent years too. there's a reason mercedes sells a lot of '4matic' versions of their vehicles and of course almost all audis are awd (quattro). it is a benefit, albeit at some cost premium and slight gas mpg penalty.

debating fwd vs. rwd at this time is kinda pointless.

 

I just totally disagree. Like I said, I feel the differences between a FWD and RWD vehicle without even being underway. The differences are immediately apparent when you look at it, when you sit in it. The proportions of a FWD car, the seating position are all different. Driving aggressively doesn't even come into the equation for me. Zero appeal for me at all.

As for the G90, yes Genesis is still looking for an identity, as Lexus was until about 2012. The parallels between the G90 and the LS are very clear when you drive one. It's not about being equipped, it's about the driving experience. It's another level above the Continental or CT6 in refinement, smoothness, quietness. Again, very similar to the LS. The styling is blah, but again it was blah on the LS for most of its life. IMHO the first LS to really be universally good looking was the LS460. The original LS400 was derivative and anonymous. The LS430 was a Mercedes clone in places and IMHO was actually ugly before the refresh in 2004. If styling is your main purchase consideration, then no you wouldn't buy a G90...but you never would have bought an LS either.

As for them not "earning $70,000", but Lincoln has? $70,000 is not what it used to be, that's an absolute steal for the G90 for what it is, it's $20,000 cheaper than anything comparable. If you adjust the $40,000 the original LS400 was in 1989, that's $78,000 today.

I find it really amusing when people that buy a Lexus have an issue with Genesis, it's Hyundai roots and brand cache.

 

Good post.

When we bought our first gen Acura TSX, we compared it against the 2nd gen IS. While the IS was RWD and the TSX was FWD, I felt that the TSX was the better handling car. I had no issue with the FWD seating position or other aspects of that car. I just really enjoyed it and it had a great handling suspension setup. I will definitely agree with Steve on the proportions, though. The front overhang and position of the front wheels in relation to the fire wall are an aesthetic compromise in a FWD car, at least to me.

As for a CUV/SUV, I've had both longitudinal layout and transverse. I've had no issue with either, but when I bought my RX and later my Highlander, the main purpose of those purchases was interior space and a transverse layout, when done properly, can really be space efficient. I don't feel I made any compromise with the FWD layout of those vehicles, as any real benefits of a RWD layout are not likely to be used by me or my wife while carting around the kids, but even with that, I don't feel there are any dynamic losses on those CUVs versus past SUVs I've had that are RWD biased.

With all that said, I do agree with Steve that a car in the league that Lincoln wants to play in with the Continental should be RWD based.

 

I don't understand why everyone is saying this. Lincoln has stated that they do not want to play in the same league as the Germans automakers. They have made it clear that they are trying their "quiet" luxury idea. No everyone wants a RWD large flagship car approaching $90K.

 

I didn't say anything about a "large flagship car approaching $90k" or the Germans.

They're selling a car that easily lists above $70k. The competition in that league ride on RWD platforms. RWD platforms will give the car better balance, resulting in closer to a 50/50 weight distribution which, I feel, does help to give the car a better ride. I also think the RWD/longitudinal platform will lend the car better style/proportions. I don't think it's a bad car, but I think they could have done better by being on a RWD platform.

 

In the end I am not certain why the argument continues over countless pages of posts. It is what it is at this point, all the "well I think" in the world is not going to change it. Further more, most of the people complaining would not buy a "Lincoln" no matter which wheels are driven. Reports have been made that the next generation of this car would run on a new RWD foundation, but that is all just speculation. Does the car accomplish its goal of "quiet luxury"? Does it go around a bend without plowing off the road? Does it put down the power it makes? From press reviews and personal reviews on this site it seems to do all of these things quite well. So they accomplished their goal, whether that would be our goal as car enthusiasts if we were designing the "perfect" Continental. The problem is, if we designed the cars, although they would be awesome, no one would ever be able to afford them. I think Lincoln should have just made all trim levels AWD and not even consider a lower cost FWD model (given this is currently their flagship), however they know their base and know that the transportation companies prefer a cheaper FWD trim level, same with the cheaper less powerful non-turbo v6 option.

 

Which RWD cars are you referring to in the 70k price point. The new Continental is appealing to the Cadillac crowd and somewhat the high end Lexus ES price point. Off the top of my head, I be the Continental exceeds the GS Lexus for all interior space dimensions. So I not sure having ride on a RWD platform is going to make any difference to their target buyer.

 

Not the case. I would buy a Lincoln no problem. I like the concept of the Continental, and quite frankly I'm the sort of buyer they're looking for. I prefer ride biased, big comfortable cars. "Quiet luxury", I'm all about that. The issue is that the product they delivered is not at its core the sort of premium vehicle that I want if I'm going to spend $60k+. I mean, if I'm going to buy a transverse mainstream derived platform luxury car I'd buy a loaded $49k Lexus ES. The Continental is a nicer car, but its all just lipstick on the same sort of thing, and if I'm spending that money I'm going to buy a proper car like a G90.

If they want to take a lesson in making a FWD transverse car look and feel like a proper RWD car they should look at the Volvo S90. However the only way Volvo does that is by using a tiny engine.

 

RWD cars in the $70k+ range? GS, LS, BMW 5 Series, MB E Class, Cadillac CT6, Genesis G80/G90, Infiniti Q70.

And perhaps the target buyers won't care. I just think it would have been better.

 

I definitely disagree. I was in upstate New York a few weeks ago in a very nice brand new Pacifica (had 10 miles on the odo when I picked it up). Was definitely NOT looking to do canyon carving with a VP and 4 of my coworkers in the car. But despite driving quite sedately, I was still very quickly reminded of how much I hate FWD.