Notices
Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Innova

Ever wonder where car-based AWD got started?

Old Feb 9, 2015 | 09:00 PM
  #1  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,571
Likes: 265
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default Ever wonder where car-based AWD got started?

Subaru and Audi (correctly) get the credit for actually developing car-based AWD, with a viscous or similarly-flexible center-differential, in raised-suspension unitized body/frame vehicles, to its present widespread potential. But American Motors (which, at the time, had just joined with France's Renault) is generally given the credit for first conceiving the idea and putting vehicles with it into production. The first AWD AMC Eagle Wagon/Sedan debuted in the fall of 1979, and the smaller hatchback 1982 Eagle SX-4. a year or two later. While the new full-time AWD system and its viscous-fluid center differential, of course, was revolutionary and ahead of its time (which went on, of course, to be the spiritual grandfather of millions of car-based AWD vehicles today produced every year), the basic bodies and interiors of the Eagle and SX-4 were nothing special......just taken from previous AMC vehicles that traced heir way back to the 1970 Hornet and Gremlin. And overall build-quality and fit/finish, always an AMC weak point, was nothing to write home about in these vehicles, either. But, at the time, short of a Jeep, Land Rover, Toyota Land Cruiser, part-time 4WD pickup, or one of the Big Three domestic SUVs like the Blazer/Bronco/Ramcharger, it was the best way to get around in the white stuff and for mild off-roading. It basically combined at least some SUV/truck utility and all-weather traction with a reasonable amount of passenger-car comfort.



Here, Motorweek's John Davis, who I've casually known for some years (but not really as a close friend or associate), reviews and test-drives a 1982 Eagle SX-4.




Last edited by mmarshall; Feb 9, 2015 at 09:05 PM.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2015 | 05:25 AM
  #2  
bagwell's Avatar
bagwell
Lexus Champion
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Liked
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 12
From: The Woodlands, TX
Default

haha what an ugly beast....pretty good video, it made me laff!


but I thought Subaru started it all in 1972......and Audi followed in ...1980...?




Last edited by bagwell; Feb 10, 2015 at 05:32 AM.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2015 | 06:26 AM
  #3  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,571
Likes: 265
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default

Originally Posted by bagwell
haha what an ugly beast....pretty good video, it made me laff!
John is a nice guy, and, in my experience, very easy to talk to. I've always liked him. He doesn't get full of himself like some auto journalists do.

How did you find the car ugly? The awkward-looking high stance? Wheels and tires, of course, were smaller in those days, making vehicles like this appear to look higher than they actually were, and have large gaps in the wheelwells. Those gaps, though, while panned by a lot of enthusiasts, do make for easy cleaning with a hose if and when you get a lot of packed snow up in them in the winter. The height off the ground also allows for easy cleaning underneath, with a hose, to get salt, sand, and mud off.


but I thought Subaru started it all in 1972......and Audi followed in ...1980...?
Yes and No. As I understand it, AMC actually developed true car-based AWD, with the center-differential that contained the viscous fluid. This, unlike earlier systems, allowed torque to be vectored to, and power to be fed to, to all four wheels at once while they were rotating at at different speeds. This allowed use on any surface, dry or wet, under any conditions. Earlier 4WD/AWD systems were either not as sophisticated or had to be shifted in and out of manually (sometimes by actually getting out of the vehicle and manually locking the front hubs), and could not be used on a dry paved surface, so the driver had to continually monitor the system based on what he or she was actually driving on. But, as you note (and I made clear in my first sentence on the post) Subaru and Audi DO deserve credit for continually advancing and developing their Symmetrical and Quattro systems.....and for integrating them into truly mass-produced cars. The Eagles, though innovative, had a rather poor reputation for build-quality (what American-designed car back then didn't?), never really sold in large numbers, and were technologically ahead of their time. Subaru, for example, was eventually to have some five different car-based AWD systems (all symmetrical) based on the specific engine/transmission combination.

Last edited by mmarshall; Feb 10, 2015 at 06:38 AM.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2015 | 06:59 AM
  #4  
LexBob2's Avatar
LexBob2
Lexus Champion
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,589
Likes: 285
From: Illinois
Default

I got sidetracked watching the reviews of the Merkur (had one) and Buick GNX (next door neighbor had one).

Last edited by LexBob2; Feb 10, 2015 at 07:45 AM.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2015 | 07:27 AM
  #5  
Toys4RJill's Avatar
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,514
Likes: 392
From: ON/NY
Default

Originally Posted by LexBob2
I got sidetracked watching the reviews of the Merkur (had one) and Buck GNX (next door neighbor had one).
Toyota Corolla had an awesome (maybe not awesome lol) Corolla in the early 80s or late 70s. Anyone know if the Camry was ever offered in AWD?
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2015 | 08:16 AM
  #6  
bagwell's Avatar
bagwell
Lexus Champion
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Liked
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 11,204
Likes: 12
From: The Woodlands, TX
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Anyone know if the Camry was ever offered in AWD?
http://www.tradecarview.com/specific..._4wd_at/14541/







Last edited by bagwell; Feb 10, 2015 at 08:19 AM.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2015 | 08:50 AM
  #7  
Toys4RJill's Avatar
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,514
Likes: 392
From: ON/NY
Default

That Camry has to be a fake.
Reply
Old Feb 10, 2015 | 09:29 AM
  #8  
Sulu's Avatar
Sulu
Lexus Champion
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,309
Likes: 31
From: Canada
Default

I remember seeing a Toyota Camry All-trac at the Toronto Autoshow years ago. It was a Gen2 model and had a much smaller (shallower) trunk because to fit the rear differential, they had to move the gas tank under the trunk floor.

There is actually a 4WD car that came before both the Subaru Leone and the AMC Eagle. It was the 1966 to 1971 British Jensen FF, a stretched variant of the Jensen Interceptor.

According to Wikepedia, the FF "was the first non all-terrain production car equipped with 4WD and an anti-lock braking system — the Dunlop Maxaret mechanical system used hitherto only on aircraft, trucks, and racing cars".

See Wikipedia.
Reply
ClubLexus Stories

Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe

story-0

2026 Lexus IS 350 F Sport Review: The Last of Its Kind Still Rocks

 Michael S. Palmer
story-1

Top 10 Most Confusing Things Lexus Has Ever Done!

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

2026 Lexus ES Review: Lexus Re-Embraces Founding Principles

 Michael S. Palmer
story-3

10 Lexus Bargains That are Cheaper Than a New Toyota RAV4

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

8 Weirdest Things Lexus Has Ever Built

 Verdad Gallardo
story-5

10 Lexus Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine

 Verdad Gallardo
story-6

8 Tips for Improving Your Hybrid or Plug-in Hybrid's Efficiency!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

10 Best Lexus Models No One Remembers

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

TRD Off-Road Premium: Best 2026 4Runner, Except This One Thing

 Michael S. Palmer
story-9

Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!

 Joe Kucinski
Old Feb 10, 2015 | 09:36 AM
  #9  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,571
Likes: 265
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Toyota Corolla had an awesome (maybe not awesome lol) Corolla in the early 80s or late 70s. Anyone know if the Camry was ever offered in AWD?
AWD models (known in Toyotaspeak as "All-Trac") were offered on some previous-generation Camrys, but only very briefly here in the U.S.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
PhilipMSPT
Car Chat
24
Mar 24, 2011 03:48 PM
gentoo
Hybrid Technology
6
May 20, 2008 09:52 AM
vader11
Car Chat
25
Nov 6, 2006 02:37 PM
mmarshall
Car Chat
11
Oct 23, 2005 02:12 PM
LexFather
Car Chat
36
Aug 25, 2004 07:55 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:39 PM.

story-0
2026 Lexus IS 350 F Sport Review: The Last of Its Kind Still Rocks

Slideshow: the 2026 IS 350 isn't all that new, and that's why we love it!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-06-04 14:35:23


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 10 Most Confusing Things Lexus Has Ever Done!

Slideshow: 10 most confusing things Lexus has ever done.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-04 09:40:55


VIEW MORE
story-2
2026 Lexus ES Review: Lexus Re-Embraces Founding Principles

Slideshow: Our First-Drive Review of the 2026 Lexus ES!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-29 20:30:16


VIEW MORE
story-3
10 Lexus Bargains That are Cheaper Than a New Toyota RAV4

Slideshow: 10 Lexus bargain that are cheaper than a new Toyota.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-20 10:28:20


VIEW MORE
story-4
8 Weirdest Things Lexus Has Ever Built

Slideshow: From hoverboards to luxury yachts, these are the strangest projects Lexus has ever attached its badge to.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-16 11:34:36


VIEW MORE
story-5
10 Lexus Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine

Slideshow: Some luxury cars chase trends, but these Lexus models look better now than they did when they first rolled into showrooms.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-06 17:58:29


VIEW MORE
story-6
8 Tips for Improving Your Hybrid or Plug-in Hybrid's Efficiency!

Slideshow: How to Get the Best Fuel Economy with a Hybrid and Plug-In Hybrid!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-05 20:54:44


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Best Lexus Models No One Remembers

Slideshow: 10 best Lexus models no one remembers.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-05 17:33:28


VIEW MORE
story-8
TRD Off-Road Premium: Best 2026 4Runner, Except This One Thing

Slideshow: diving into 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium's pricing, performance, fuel economy, features, and amenities!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-23 13:09:18


VIEW MORE
story-9
Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!

Slideshow: the 10 Lexus and Toyota vehicles you need to drive before you die.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-23 10:34:24


VIEW MORE