2015 Camry, commentary
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,246
Likes: 275
Complete market was larger than in 2013 and Toyota share of that market was also much larger due to above. Bob Carter has said recently that that market share was not realistic and they expect to obtain it ever again.
I know you like to jump on Toyota but it is silly to say that Camry sales are bad and that Toyota is doing bad...
2013 is significant for Toyota:
1. Most cars produced in the history of Toyota brand.
2. Largest profit made in the history of Toyota brand.
Just putting that into perspective.
All automakers saw about a 25% dip in yearly sales. Toyota dipped around 20%. Subaru oddly enough was up 30%.
So, those figure drops had nothing to do with the car. It was about the economy.
Don't forget about the "unintended acceleration" madness in 2010, and the Japan earthquake in 2011. Those also affected sales figures.
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
From: il
i'll never understand camry buyers. there are simply better choices.
just compare the look of camry and mazda 6. mazda6 looks like it's in a different segment.
give me
mazda6
passat
accord
sonata/optima
altima
fusion
over camry.
just compare the look of camry and mazda 6. mazda6 looks like it's in a different segment.
give me
mazda6
passat
accord
sonata/optima
altima
fusion
over camry.
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
From: il
But thats not really true. Accord sells great with new model and always did. Camry still outsold it.
Sonata sold 203k cars in 2013, down from 230k. Despite Hyundai doubling their fleet sales. On the other hand, Toyota lowered their fleet sales compared to 2013.
And Toyoda is saying the same for complete brand and all of their cars, not just the Camry. That does not mean that he thinks Camry sucks.
I dont think Camry can sell much better at all... few years back, head for Toyota production in USA said that optimal Camry production is 400k and that they dont gain much by producing more than 400k.
What Toyota and Toyoda probably want to do is to sell Camry at higher prices and higher profits. Although I am not sure that the profits are not high already, as Camry is their biggest car after Corolla worldwide and Toyota has record profits for 2013.
So obviously they are doing great.
Sonata sold 203k cars in 2013, down from 230k. Despite Hyundai doubling their fleet sales. On the other hand, Toyota lowered their fleet sales compared to 2013.
And Toyoda is saying the same for complete brand and all of their cars, not just the Camry. That does not mean that he thinks Camry sucks.
I dont think Camry can sell much better at all... few years back, head for Toyota production in USA said that optimal Camry production is 400k and that they dont gain much by producing more than 400k.
What Toyota and Toyoda probably want to do is to sell Camry at higher prices and higher profits. Although I am not sure that the profits are not high already, as Camry is their biggest car after Corolla worldwide and Toyota has record profits for 2013.
So obviously they are doing great.
1. you do know mpg fiasco was pretty big deal for sonata right? i'm surprised it didn't hit half of the sales. if i was sonata buyer i would sue their ***.
2. and sonata is in its last year of a cycle i believe. and IMO, sonata's design didn't age well. i think it still looks sharp in some angles, but it's kinda looks tired to me. vanilla works in this segment. cars like passat will age well.
3. much better competition - sonata debuted when other top models were dated. it was a perfect storm with the provocative design and marketing push.
IMO, camry has been a huge disappointment. toyota is better than that. camry's interior is a borderline joke. i mean talk about drastic quality difference between avalon and camry. it's night and day.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,246
Likes: 275
reason for sonata's decline
1. you do know mpg fiasco was pretty big deal for sonata right? i'm surprised it didn't hit half of the sales. if i was sonata buyer i would sue their ***.
2. and sonata is in its last year of a cycle i believe. and IMO, sonata's design didn't age well. i think it still looks sharp in some angles, but it's kinda looks tired to me. vanilla works in this segment. cars like passat will age well.
3. much better competition - sonata debuted when other top models were dated. it was a perfect storm with the provocative design and marketing push.
IMO, camry has been a huge disappointment. toyota is better than that. camry's interior is a borderline joke. i mean talk about drastic quality difference between avalon and camry. it's night and day.
1. you do know mpg fiasco was pretty big deal for sonata right? i'm surprised it didn't hit half of the sales. if i was sonata buyer i would sue their ***.
2. and sonata is in its last year of a cycle i believe. and IMO, sonata's design didn't age well. i think it still looks sharp in some angles, but it's kinda looks tired to me. vanilla works in this segment. cars like passat will age well.
3. much better competition - sonata debuted when other top models were dated. it was a perfect storm with the provocative design and marketing push.
IMO, camry has been a huge disappointment. toyota is better than that. camry's interior is a borderline joke. i mean talk about drastic quality difference between avalon and camry. it's night and day.
3 years ago, here in this forum, people were saying how Sonata will take over Camry, possibly in 2012. Last year, people were predicting how Fusion will take over Camry.
All that happened was Camry selling even more and both Ford and Hyundai having huge fleet sales... Hyundai does 2x more fleet than Toyota and Ford does 3x more fleet than Toyota.
But once again, I personally would not buy Camry ever for myself. I would buy it for my wife though.
However, Camry has huge following of people who buy them, and they are not car enthusiasts. If they made Camry like Mazda 6, their sales would tank, even if I personally preffer Mazda 6.
So what I am saying is that people are confusing their personal preferences with market preferences. Next Camry will be "good" for 2014, just like this one was good in 2011, and then 2-3 years later, we will have another thread like this where people will say it sucks big time and it needs to change or Hyundai/Ford/Honda will overtake it.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
2007 was record year for Toyota in the USA due to big 3 unable to finance their vehicles due to their impeding chapter 11's.
Complete market was larger than in 2013 and Toyota share of that market was also much larger due to above. Bob Carter has said recently that that market share was not realistic and they expect to obtain it ever again.
I know you like to jump on Toyota but it is silly to say that Camry sales are bad and that Toyota is doing bad...
2013 is significant for Toyota:
1. Most cars produced in the history of Toyota brand.
2. Largest profit made in the history of Toyota brand.
Just putting that into perspective.
Complete market was larger than in 2013 and Toyota share of that market was also much larger due to above. Bob Carter has said recently that that market share was not realistic and they expect to obtain it ever again.
I know you like to jump on Toyota but it is silly to say that Camry sales are bad and that Toyota is doing bad...
2013 is significant for Toyota:
1. Most cars produced in the history of Toyota brand.
2. Largest profit made in the history of Toyota brand.
Just putting that into perspective.
Guest
Posts: n/a
The Camry just minds its business and you would think its the worst car on the planet the way some people make it seem. 
Except WHEN YOU GET PAST THE FLUFF outside of the Accord they are not as well built and over time the Camry is rock solid and the rest rattle and things start to go wrong. Not to mention the Toyota dealer network is still one of the best.
I think many are confusing more stylish for a better car.
Please explain what a CR-V does better than a Camry? Everything the Camry is accused off the CR-V is the same or worse.
Please tell us what you drive so we can say "i'll never understand _________ owners"
To those saying vanilla sells, that's beginning to be a dying trend and dated mindset. Just look at what's happened with the Sonata, Optima, Altima and Accord recently. As I mentioned in my original post, cars like that have added stylish, modern bodies to the equation and have gained a ton of momentum not once had. This has certainly stole sales away from the Camry and is exactly what Mr. Toyoda is referring to when he says they need to improve the Camry by adding emotion. He knows there's more to be had. Simple, plane Jane no longer cuts it today in this segment. People want everything all in one, and the Camry is losing potential sales because of this. He wouldn't be admitting there's a problem if there truly wasn't a problem.
To clear up the sales numbers, whatever they may be:
Camry sales, good. Could be better.
To clear up the sales numbers, whatever they may be:
Camry sales, good. Could be better.
I think many are confusing more stylish for a better car.
Please explain what a CR-V does better than a Camry? Everything the Camry is accused off the CR-V is the same or worse.
Please tell us what you drive so we can say "i'll never understand _________ owners"
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Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
The economy tanked in 2009.
All automakers saw about a 25% dip in yearly sales. Toyota dipped around 20%. Subaru oddly enough was up 30%.
So, those figure drops had nothing to do with the car. It was about the economy.
Don't forget about the "unintended acceleration" madness in 2010, and the Japan earthquake in 2011. Those also affected sales figures.
All automakers saw about a 25% dip in yearly sales. Toyota dipped around 20%. Subaru oddly enough was up 30%.
So, those figure drops had nothing to do with the car. It was about the economy.
Don't forget about the "unintended acceleration" madness in 2010, and the Japan earthquake in 2011. Those also affected sales figures.
It's the wife's choice of vehicle.A Honda that bites you.
A sedan should have a nicer design than that of the so ugly in and out cost cut Camry.
Styling is subjective but what sedan in it's class is the Camry style nicer than to you?Maybe the Passat?
Maybe you should try and convince Akio in a email or phone call to stay the course on the present Camry design.
Last edited by Joeb427; Jan 21, 2014 at 12:59 PM.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,534
Likes: 0
From: MD
Ugh it's soooo boring. Off topic, but the GF asked why I didn't pick her up in her CR-V...I will choose the Subaru for snow covered roads, time and again.
Simple as that.
Would I buy a CR-V for me?No.
Would I buy a new Camry?No but I did own a '07 XLE and '11 loaded Hybrid that was rear ended.
Both those cars rode smoother and quieter than the new generation.Also had a nicer thud when shutting the door.
As far as a Subaru,I preferred a loaded Outback over the CR-V.My wife didn't like the station wagon look and loved the CR-V.She also had a '11 CR-V.
Lead Lap
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 501
Likes: 4
From: ny
ford fusion FTW. The more I see it, the better it looks. What a desirable looking midsize sedan.
the competition is getting good, many are realizing the holy grail of design. Toyota and nissan better catch on fast.
the competition is getting good, many are realizing the holy grail of design. Toyota and nissan better catch on fast.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,534
Likes: 0
From: MD
