The GS ain't a taxicab. The point is different cars again have different goals. For the ten trillionth time the GS will never sell like an E or 5, those are dominant cars in their segment with way to many variants and engine choices. Lexus sold nearly 50k worldwide which might not sound like much but its a success for Lexus.

The 5 series is now based off the 7 series, do tell me about how much they developed for the car.

Again some of us are buying the cars and are very happy and some are just complaining on the internet.

 

Lexus is considered tier 1 no matter where. Lexus doesn't sell well in Europe because Europeans want other things and values that Lexus somehow lacks of that. For example, history is very important and Lexus is pretty young. Diesels and small cars are a huge market for Europe but Lexus' got just the CT, which is a small car but hybrid.

All the german automakers manufacture cars in China, they have partnered up with local companies so they can avoid the 25% import tax. That's another reason why Lexus sells less in China, a CT200h costs $13,000 more than a 320i while in the U.S is just $600 more. This is a real case and in the end, the client decided to go with the 320i although he liked the CT more. Don't forget that Lexus in being manufactured and they are true import cars with a very high quality and craftsmanship which by any means can be compared to the chinese workforce like Audi FAW, BMW Brilliance, Benz BAIC

The IS does good in other markets and if they were to remove it, Lexus in Europe would only have the GS, which to be honest, doesn't make any sense as a entry-sedan. Take a look at Jaguar, they are struggling to bring back the X-Type.

 

What everyone forgets is that US is just one market in the Lexus' GLOBAL reach. The ES is essentially a US phenomenon ( to pander to Americans' unique tastes). No where else except China is the ES sold.

Everywhere else, the core RWD sedans : IS, GS and LS take care of the international markets.

Take my country for example : Singapore. Lexus ES USED to be sold here until around 2004 when Toyota decided that Lexus would be a truly world class brand. ES even though a hot seller in Singapore was dropped like a hot rock and the Singapore market was essentially forced to buy GS if Singaporeans wanted a mid-size Lexus.

Does this make the ES a poor car? No, it just means that the ES has sparked something in the American car buyer's psyche and does its core mission perfectly : transport Americans in unrivalled comfort and luxury at the 30-40,000 price bracket.

As a car enthusiast, I would never buy or consider the ES but I don't begrudge Americans their love for the ES. The ES rakes in the money for Toyota so that cars like the IS and GS can exist. An ES buyer is essentially subsidizing an IS/GS buyer's love for sporty RWD sedans that are currently spanking BMWs on the handling circuit and on the winding canyon road.

Think of it this way : BMW and MB are currently hobbled in how sporty and dynamic they can make their mainstream 3s/5s/Cs/Es ( M and AMG don't count as mainstream performance sedans). So what happens? You get the F10 5 series which is engineered towards the luxury side of the spectrum but gets spanked by the Lexus GS when it meets a winding road. A 5 series has to encompass both ends of the Luxury--Sporty continuum and subsequently ends up not being very good at one end of the spectrum. Same thing for the E-class. Same thing for the F30 3 series vs the 3rd gen IS.

The ES gets the unglamourous but necessary job of addressing the non-enthusiast American's tastes for affordable luxury transport. Not that the IS and GS are impractical or not luxurious but the ES frees up the IS and GS to chase the enthusiast market with a much more singular focus. The result? IS and GS are now arguably the sportiest in their segment and the go-to car for the smart and educated car enthusiast who does his/her homework and doesn't just blindly buy on badge alone. Note that we are talking about the mainstream-middle class consumer who doesn't want to pony up M/RS/AMG type money just to enjoy his daily drive.

Different luxury car brands have different strategies for succeeding : BMW gives us the laughable 520i,528i,316i,318i and 320i. MB gives us the E200, C180.

Lexus has the ES. I'd rather they have a different model , the ES, that focuses on a different aspect of the luxury car driver experience than water down a sporty line like the GS with decontented underpowered variants like BMW/MB does.

As a keen driver and car enthusiast, what do I care if the ES is the volume seller for Lexus in the mid-size segment? I view it this way : every 3 ESs on the road allows Toyota/Lexus to pour in the R&D and engineering into developing one superbly handling GS, a car that can dust a 5 series on a winding road yet give less headaches at the mechanic's workshop.

BTW, there is no way the GS can now be cancelled. The 4th gen GS L10 platform is now the birth chassis for too many variants : 3rd gen IS, RC coupe, JDM-only Toyota Mark X, Toyota Crown RWD performance/luxury sedans. Toyota really put in the money and engineering in developing this chassis and will continue to leverage on this chassis for the next few years in order to recoup their research and engineering budget. And this engineering really shows up everytime you drive a GS around a corner

As a Lexus fan, I'm not so insecure that the presence of the ES somehow makes Lexus less of a Tier 1 brand. A less than Tier 1 brand would never be able to engineer a chassis like the GS/IS, cars that can now beat BMW at its own game of ultimate driving mainstream sedans. The depth of engineering speaks for itself.

 

Struggling? Jaguar is doing very well, and the upcoming XS (3-Series fighter) shows they are commited to expanding their portfolio to better compete against other Tier 1's.

 

This is mainly the point we are making.

Dropping the ES will hurt Lexus sales BUT in the long term improve the Brand Equity.

It would also INCREASE SALES of the GS/IS, which in turn would give Lexus more $$$$$ to reinvest and expand those product lines!

 

Why do you keep bringing this up (bolded)? No one is questioning or bashing a decision to buy a GS. Heck I'd easily take the GS as my first pick in the segment, as with pretty much every other Lexus over its competition including the ES. I despise Mercedes Benz, resent VW group, and am completely indifferent to BMW. A 5 series is a maybe but I'd never be caught dead in an E-class or A6. One has as much soul and character as a plant pot, is overpriced, and with its massive badge up front is an ode to narcissists everywhere, and the other is based on a FWD platform with shady reliability and a great example of VAG marketing deception.

This isn't about that. This is about a potentially bleak future at Lexus should the GS be axed because low sales won't justify investing into developing the next one. Low sales that are partly because the ES exists.

This is a counter to people who say the ES sells well, is an important volume model, and should never be killed off. When you look at the big picture, that very fact could have very negative consequences for Lexus as a whole in the long term, even if it seems like a positive thing now. And saying this doesn't mean I'm bashing people who've bought an ES. If I was looking in that segment, do you think I'd get an MKZ? A Lacrosse? A KIA Cadenza?! Blech! I'd go ES too.

But if Johnny Carbuyer wants a midsize Lexus sedan, he should pony up the dough and go for a GS. If he can't afford it, too bad. Either get an IS if you want an entry Lexus sedan or there's the Avalon, better luck next time.

 

Actually that's not true. I saw toyota badged Lexus ES in Russia, and the ES is also available in the middle east, and many are being used as taxicabs in places like Dubai, we hired them a couple times when we were there.

 

^^^ That is correct, there are 3 ES models offered in Russia, ES250 / ES350 / ES300h. They also offer 3 GS models in Russia, GS250 / GS350 / GS450h.

ES250 model starts at roughly $48,500 and GS250 starts at $53,500. I know it's a different market over there, but I would love to see Russian sales numbers. With GS250 being offered, I wonder how good the ES sales are?

 

Considering who the traditional ES buyer is (older/conservative) I'm sure that Toyota/Lexus realize that if they pulled the plug on the ES which is on pace to sell 68k cars this year many of these buyers wouldn't want a sports sedan like the GS or IS and wouldn't pony up for an LS. If 15% of these lost buyers went directly to Avalon, that still leaves about 58k sales that could potentially be lost to Azera, Cadenza, Genesis, TL, MKZ, Taurus, LaCrosse, etc. etc. They wouldn't want to loose those buyers.

 

3000 GS and 1500 ES sold in Europe in 6 months 2013

with distinction that ES is only sold in Russia and Ukraine.

ES probably barely outsells GS in Russia, even though pricing is much closer than in USA. Imagine how well would ES250 sell with 45k price :-). To be fair to GS, GS250 is really slow and not suitable engine while GS350 AWD and GS450h are really expensive, $20k more than ES250.

Russia is 35% of Lexus European sales, and growing, thats why they have full lineup, even LX and GX.

In fact, in 2012, best selling Lexus in Russia was RX and then LX, and then GS (new ES started selling this year).

CT, LS and IS were worst sellers, very small sales.

IS will likely surge ahead once new model starts sales, we will see that in 2-3 months maybe.

GS might keep its good first year sales once GS300h arrives later this year. That will make it sell in rest of the Europe as well. Right now you have GS250 that half of countries dont sell at all, and nobody wants to buy and GS450h which is awesome but simply crazy expensive. GS300h will bring up the sales for sure.

 

what you are talking about makes no sense at all at several levels.

1. Why would you stop making your most profitable, best selling vehicle so less profitable less selling vehicle gets sold better? That makes no sense at all from business perspective. Do you dream that GS would triple its sales? How?

2. 66k GS's were made in 2012. It outsold: IS, LS, HS and CT. GS is 3rd best selling vehicle that Lexus made in 2012, after ES and RX.

Why would they stop selling their 3rd best selling vehicle which is probably very profitable?

Main problem for 3GS was drop off after 1st year of sales... it was heavy. 4GS doesnt seem to have that problem, and they seem to be eager to refresh it with more options, with GS300h coming soon as well as GS-F and likely GS200t in 2 years.

ES doesnt eat into GS sales considerably, and in general ES and GS are perfect example how vehicles can co-exist... similar to Prius c and Prius in Japan. Yes, Prius sales dropped by 10%-20% due to Prius c, but overall their combined sales doubled and Toyota gained 80% new sales in the end.

IS, ES and GS should be sold in every country where Lexus is sold and customers can be left to decide which car to buy... it would increase their sales significantly, and what they are doing right now in Europe is sending prospective buyers to base FWD A6's, and those people dont care about sporty drive.


In fact, you can look at Australia... Toyota is #1 seller there. Lexus IS and RX sell good, Lexus GS sells only ok, nothing special. There is no Lexus ES. Lexus GS has 250, 350 and 450h versions. It is outsold by old IS, RX and CT.

Was there anything gained by not offering ES? Nope. They will start selling ES300h and ES350 later this year.

 

Thanks for the correction but my point remains : ES is largely a US phenomenon built primarily for and targeted to the US market.

 

IS/GS sales up - sky is rising.
ES sales up - sky is falling.


rinse... and repeat.

all very silly. lexus is doing fine.

 

50% of sales of Lexus are in US market and 50% of sales of ES are for US market


:-)

 

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...cars.html#more

We'd like to think most auto executives drove to work this morning listening to The Cars' "Good Times Roll." June and July turned out the best seasonally adjusted auto sales since before the recession. In raw numbers, new-car sales saw the healthiest July since 2007.

The fastest sellers, unsurprisingly, were also some of the strongest. Recent redesigns of the 2014 Acura MDX (July sales up 29.5%), 2014 Lexus IS (sales up 58.6%) and 2014 Subaru Forester (sales up 52.5%) joined the updated 2014 Honda Odyssey (sales up 10.9%) among July's fastest-selling cars.

The 2014 Land Rover Range Rover topped the list, but the sybaritic SUV was redesigned a year ago. No matter: Each Rover stayed on dealer lots less than a week apiece, and July sales flew 111.3%.

Stranger still, the Audi Q5 has gone without a substantial redesign since it arrived in early 2009, yet it was the 3rd fastest seller on the list — and it's been among the fastest-selling cars for 9 of the past 10 months. Its Q7 sibling, meanwhile, has been on the roster for four straight months despite showing up in late 2006.

What gives? 1 possibility: Tight dealer stock drives shoppers to snap them up. As of this morning, Cars.com had 2,490 new Q5s across 293 Audi dealers nationwide. The Acura RDX has similar sales popularity and dealer count on Cars.com, yet Acura had more than 5,500 in stock. When Q5s arrive, they don't stick around. Strong demand helps, too. Sales for the 4-year-old Q5 jumped 52% in July; the 7-year-old Q7 ballooned 49%. Business textbooks should detail both SUVs under the glossary heading for "cash cow."

Cars in July averaged 62 days to turn, which is close to June's 59 days as well as July 2012's 63 days.

Here are July's Movers and Losers:

July's Movers

• 2014 Land Rover Range Rover: 6 days
• 2014 Audi Q7: 8 days
• 2014 Audi Q5: 9 days
• 2014 Honda Odyssey: 9 days
• 2014 Acura MDX: 10 days
• 2014 Lexus IS 350: 10 days
• 2014 Ford Explorer: 11 days
• 2014 Subaru Forester: 11 days
• 2014 Audi A4 sedan: 12 days
• 2014 Scion tC: 12 days
• 2014 Lexus IS 250: 13 days
• 2014 Ford Escape: 14 days
• 2014 Ford Fiesta sedan: 15 days
• 2014 Nissan Versa Note: 15 days
• 2013 BMW 320i sedan: 15 days
• 2013 Buick Encore: 15 days
• 2014 GMC Sierra 1500 Crew Cab: 16 days

July's Losers

• 2013 Smart ForTwo cabrio: 296 days
• 2013 Chevrolet Malibu Eco: 237 days
• 2013 Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG sedan: 231 days
• 2013 Chevrolet Corvette convertible: 192 days
• 2013 Porsche Panamera Hybrid: 191 days
• 2013 Volkswagen Golf R two-door: 179 days
• 2013 Chevrolet Corvette coupe: 178 days
• 2013 BMW 550i Gran Turismo: 178 days
• 2013 BMW 650i xDrive coupe: 174 days
• 2013 BMW 650i coupe: 171 days

Cars.com Picks

• 2013 Chevrolet Volt: 82 days
• 2013 Chevrolet Traverse: 84 days
• 2013 Ford F-150 Crew Cab: 84 days
• 2013 Acura TL: 89 days
• 2013 Cadillac ATS: 89 days
• 2013 Mazda3 hatchback: 94 days

About the Lists
The Fastest- and Slowest-Selling Cars list reports the average number of days it takes to sell models from the day they arrive on the lot until the final paperwork is signed by a buyer. This is not a days-of-inventory list like you may find on other websites. We look at 2013 and a number of 2014s now, calling the fastest sellers Movers and the slowest ones Losers.

For Movers, we only list vehicles that pass a certain threshold of sales in order to weed out limited editions, ultra-high-performance cars and others that might skew the numbers or otherwise inaccurately portray popularity. To highlight all slow sellers, losers have no such threshold.

Our Picks highlight cars that take a significant time before they're sold and might be overlooked by shoppers. Dealers could be more motivated to sell these cars.