Carmaker1

Clearly you're off base on that one if you want to paint all European brands with a broad brush. Do the 2014 S-Class, A8 W12, and Jaguar XJ Ultimate ring a bell?

Fizzboy7

Audi has the wood. It's called "layered oak" and debuted three years ago.
I too am surprised no Audi is on here. The A6, A7, and A8 have modern and artful interiors with high quality materials.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Lux pkg still gets adjustable side bolsters so both 16 way and 18 way power seats

spwolf

A6 is not there because GS has at least one class nicer interior. from the leather to the wood, it is just nicer (more expensive).

I have been to A6 recently, and it was almost top spec, and its nicer than A4, Q3, A5, but it is not THAT nice. They could have put more leather in it and less shiny plastics.

A4 on the other hand... Makes ES look like LS.

TRDFantasy

Not sure why you hate the new ES interior so much .

Interior materials in many ways are improved over the previous-gen with its goofy "oval" center stack.

Not a single review for the new ES has mentioned interior materials being that cheap. Yes, there are some weak spots, but firstly in design it is WORLDS better than the previous-gen ES. Secondly, Lexus has made more of a clear distinction with the ES and GS interiors. Yes, that means the ES interior is NOT supposed to be as good as the GS. Keep in mind the ES is "entry-level luxury". You shouldn't be expecting a 60K interior for 40K as an example.

Again, while there are some weak spots in the new ES interior, it is not "pathetic" like you say, and I'm sure Lexus will be updating the interior sooner rather than later.

The new ES interior still has more attention to detail than the new Avalon, and it's still a step above the Avalon, which of course is a great interior for its class.

Maybe previous Audi interiors. Sat in any new Audi interiors lately? They all have strange styling, ergonomic and lightning choices in their new interiors.

Ah, listing very high end models, what a strong argument .

Yes, I was generalizing, and yes I was talking about Euro interiors *in general*. The models you mention are more exceptions than the rule.

The fact is, the Euro brands, specifically the Germans over the last few years have been releasing a lot of entry-level and lower-end models, and in the future will be releasing more and more lower-end models. Interior quality has gradually been declining, and even on the midrange German models interior quality has not been that great lately.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

That gs iunterior is really impressive, but as stated earlier surprised to not see audi, out of all the germans they are my least favorite car of bmw and mercedes, but their interior bows the other two out of the water

spwolf

I think that 5 series interior is better than A6.... A6 in real life is nothing special, they put a lot of shiny plastics... 5 series have nice one.... in any case, in lower to mid classes, today in German vehicles, you have to pay up to get decent interior... and most people dont get them loaded anyway since they are too expensive... so you read review of $55k F30, looks ok, you buy one for $45k and looks like crap.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Well we're all entitled to our subjective opinions

A goofy centerstack is part of the design and not necessarily material quality. I'm not denying it's bad, as most 2006/2007 L-Finesse models went down in quality, but compare the material content of a 2006 ES330 vs a 2007 ES350 or 2013 ES350 and the materials are night and day.

Doesn't really matter because all those publications care about are numbers be it performance or rear leg room etc. Lexus began with a reputation for plush and lavish materials with near perfect fit and finish vs the competition. They should still stand for that rather than cut corners. On a cash cow like the ES, they can certainly afford to put better materials in the ES. Close a 2013 ES350 door vs even the 2007 ES350 door recently? That nice patented "thud/clunk" noise is missing, and the doors feel lighter and take more force to shut properly. The quality of materials of the cheaper CT are better than that of the ES for goodness sake.

Better not be an update but rather a whole renovation because that car is a mess.

LexFather

I like the 5 over the A6 as well.

SW17LS

This is really it. Interior material quality on the ES has been on a steady decline since 2006. Its almost like they're trying to figure out how much they can decontent the material quality on that car before people will start to complain. Well...they figured it out.

I drove my old 2003 ES with 165k on the clock the other day for the first time in a long time (its still in the family) and I was reminded again what a nice car the ES used to be, and how you really did feel like you were in a $60,000 car even though it was a $39k car. Nicer materials than my previous 2010 ES, and certainly the 2013. There was no other car within $15k of that car in price that was as nice inside.

To me the 2013 is a $44k car that now feels like a $35k car. Which is a far cry from where it came from.

Fizzboy7

I hear this a lot in other forums. Everyone complains interiors are becoming more downmarket. I've personally not noticed it to the extent others have, but I have noticed the following (more psychology here, so get ready)...
As cars become more technically advanced and interiors are crammed with more and more displays, workable buttons, and electronic-related devices, they are giving up their "pretty" surfaces and gaining "mechanical" surfaces. What this means is areas that were once covered in wood, stylish dashboard material, or soft trim, are now covered with hard buttons or levers, shiny plastic displays, or glass screens. All those pieces I listed look like the mechanical devices they are and give up asthetics.

Jumping back to Lexus, we have consistently been getting more screens, more devices, and more electronics added to our interiors (Hey, this is what we all ask for, right?). I believe this is a big reason today's inteiors and dashboards appear cheaper. We are staring at electronics, not at decorative materials. Electronics are not pretty. They are working devices. Having trouble imagining this? A quick look at the area surrounding the gear shift lever is a perfect example. Always used to be surrounded by wood. Today? Now that area has a joystick, buttons, and is surrounded by the protective plastic that houses it. Which looks prettier? Yeah,exactly. That's just one example. Electronics rarely look artful or pretty. The rest of the dash has the same thing going on. We all want the latest and greatest electronics, but it's going to be at the expense of asthetics.
So I'll conclude by saying we are responsible for this transformation. Everyone *****es and complains about having the latest tech stuff. Now that we have it, it's no better looking than our cell phones, DVD players, and ipods.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Yup, some new Lexus models have progressed and others have declined. Shame on the bean counters at Toyota/Lexus

Mike728

Bingo! Yes, $35k in 2003 equals $44k today. $39k in 2003 is almost $50k today. See this

Even so, I would much rather have all the technological advancements in my 2013, over any material quality superiority that the 2003 had.

SW17LS

Inflation is not so linear or so simple, that calculator on that site is fun but not very accurate. For instance...we haven't had much inflation over the past 5 years...but they think we have.

You can get technological advancements without material quality all over the place, Honda Accords, Toyota Camrys, Hyundais, Fords and Chevys. The ES has no incredible technology on it, its all technology that can be found on top of the line midsized mainstream sedans. In fact, many of those vehicles have far more technology than Lexus has on the LS...let alone the ES. Tech has never been Lexus' strong suit.

My issue with the ES is that now its a car that is no nicer than a loaded Honda Accord (maybe even dare I say...not as nice) with a Lexus badge and $8k added to the price. Its not particularly luxurious anymore, but it pretends to be. Its like a pretend Lexus. Sorry, but it makes me mad what they've done to the car. Even Toyota, the Avalon's interior has better materials and the car has more features and technology.

In 2003 the ES had all the technology that was available...it was also a technologically laden car, yet somehow they were able to provide better quality. Same with the 07-09 and especially the 2010-2012, it had features they stripped out of the 2013, and still had better interior quality.

LexBob2

The interior quality, or lack of it (opinions will vary) isn't hampering sales of the new gen ES. Sales thru March = 17k +97%. It didn't on the previous gen either.

Tweaks can easily be made at any time or at the mid cycle refresh like they did with the 2010 model. Sales trends will determine if and when changes are made.