BMW 3 Series M Sport versus 2014 Lexus IS F Sport
#46
well i am still not sold on those lights, but otherwise it is very good from lexus (personally if i dont like the lights in person, i wont buy it regardless of superb interior and anything else). However, BMW is a lot more toned down, bland if you want vehicle. They are very different cars quite possibly. For instance, I was really annoyed by subpar interior quality of new 3 series, even if exterior looked very good in my eyes.
#47
1) price will go down after supply equals demand
2) He just graduated from school so needs to pay off his loans
3) the interior isn't on par with something you pay $45k for
I guess he got obsessed with the name brand, or his girlfriend was
Back to the OP, the interior design of the IS F is awesome as usual. Lexus has hit it out of the park with their new interiors. And I personally like the new GS/LS re-designs (was in the middle with the new ES). I just feel this new ISF should be toned down.
#48
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BMW can't really go crazy with the 3 series, it is a huge volume seller and they cannot be too controversial. That is why even under Bangle the 3 series was the safe design. Contrarily the ES and RX are the volume sellers and with the ES Lexus can really push the IS to be very different since its not the volume car here. Looking at this 3IS Lexus really pushed the envelope with the front, rear and interior as they don't need to please everyone. They just need to please a few Lexus has really nothing to lose in Europe so they can push the IS to be very brave. What will be interesting to see is how the European market feels. I have no doubt it will be a hit in Japan.
Again I think its pretty cool they did a side by side mock up so quickly and it shows how legitimate the IS is when you see them compare it right away.
ES/RX are the stable core. IS and GS can push the envelope in a different way than 3, C, E, 5.
#49
You raise a good point - one that Lexus actually publicly acknowledged a while ago. I am not going to search through all of the press and commentary, but a Lexus rep said something along the lines of, "You aren't going to lead the segment if you aren't bold and don't push the envelope. The next IS will absolutely do that with a radical design." There was some further commentary about how the IS is 3-4 spots back in terms of popularity and sales, and Lexus was taking a gamble on the design.
ES/RX are the stable core. IS and GS can push the envelope in a different way than 3, C, E, 5.
ES/RX are the stable core. IS and GS can push the envelope in a different way than 3, C, E, 5.
otherwise, GS looks very bland compared to IS... IS looks like a wild animal.
#50
I've been studying it now since yesterday and while I do admired the design, I can't say I actually like it. It's brave, bold, futuristic even, but it doesn't stir lust in me.
#51
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You know, it's weird, the 3IS doesn't look that great to me by itself, but when I've seen comparisons, like this one between it and the 3-series, or another one between it and the 2IS, it looks better to me.
This I agree with. The 2GR-FSE is a great little engine, but... it's time for an update.
I really do think the F-sport should offer some form of manual transmission and bigger power though. That little 3.5L, while more impressive than Nissan's offerings, just can't compare to the rest of the competition anymore. We need a 2.5L or a 3.0L turbo motor from Toyota.
Last edited by RocketGuy3; 01-10-13 at 11:58 AM.
#52
#53
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Also, Lexus needs to stop showing press cars in white, especially F sport cars. The contrast is too much for most people and it shows absolutely zero body lines or character. It also makes the car look FLAT. Silver or Charcoal would show more character and not be as much of a shocking contrast with the black F Sport grill.
Flat-looking white paint + flat-looking huge grill + over-processing in photoshop = poor first impressions from a lot of folks so far. Lexus needs to correct this and release more pictures of the dark gray car but they generally always release over-exposed, over-processed pics of cars that ultimately look MUCH better in real life and normal photographs.
Flat-looking white paint + flat-looking huge grill + over-processing in photoshop = poor first impressions from a lot of folks so far. Lexus needs to correct this and release more pictures of the dark gray car but they generally always release over-exposed, over-processed pics of cars that ultimately look MUCH better in real life and normal photographs.
Lexus finally came out with a production ready design that is very close to its concept. A concept that got many people's attention and even won design awards/accolades.
People complain about Lexus being too 'beige' and you want them to tone it down?
Right.
Its production ready and I'm glad its production ready.
People complain about Lexus being too 'beige' and you want them to tone it down?
Right.
Its production ready and I'm glad its production ready.
I made the same point when the 4th Gen GS came out, Lexus is moving forward and being progressive. Mr Toyoda said it best our customers are getting younger and the brand/cars need to reflect that. Porps to Lexus for sticking so close to the concept car which is RARE for any car company.
#54
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Meanwhile in Acura/Honda forums... http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?m...mber=1#1124808
Ps. Not comparison between the IS and the 3, but the impression of car enthusiasts.
Ps. Not comparison between the IS and the 3, but the impression of car enthusiasts.
#55
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I really do think the F-sport should offer some form of manual transmission and bigger power though. That little 3.5L, while more impressive than Nissan's offerings, just can't compare to the rest of the competition anymore. We need a 2.5L or a 3.0L turbo motor from Toyota.
The 335 doesn't qualify as it's a driver's race, and the internet shows that the IS350 wins the drag race the majority.
C350? Less HP and torque. MB matched what Lexus did 7 years ago.
A4? 2.0T is the only option. S4 starts at $48k and must be optioned ~$53k to match the options.
ATS has more HP and less torque. I'd call that one even.
G37? Let's not pretend it's on equal footing with any of these.
Does Lexus need a new engine? Yes. But not because the 2GR-FSE is unpowered. Because it'd be a deathblow to other brands given an objective car buyer considering the current alternatives.
Last edited by Infra; 01-10-13 at 01:27 PM.
#57
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Folks, GOOD DESIGNS and GOOD FEATURES and GOOD PRICES are GOOD for CONSUMERS.
Competition is GOOD! for US!
We WANT Lexus and BMW and MB and Audi to look HOT and be MORE reliable so they can compete their asses off for OUR purchase.
Remember that.
This new IS could be a real contender to the 3 series directly. It has all of the things people like to show off to their friends, the finger touch control climate, the cool shifting odometer screen, the free traffic and weather, and to be frank, the design is stunning. It is more bold in design than any production model I've seen from Lexus so far.
Competition is GOOD! for US!
We WANT Lexus and BMW and MB and Audi to look HOT and be MORE reliable so they can compete their asses off for OUR purchase.
Remember that.
This new IS could be a real contender to the 3 series directly. It has all of the things people like to show off to their friends, the finger touch control climate, the cool shifting odometer screen, the free traffic and weather, and to be frank, the design is stunning. It is more bold in design than any production model I've seen from Lexus so far.
Last edited by G Star; 01-10-13 at 03:40 PM.
#58
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Please name one ~$40k near-lux / sport sedan that outperforms the current generation IS350.
The 335 doesn't qualify as it's a driver's race, and the internet shows that the IS350 wins the drag race the majority.
C350? Less HP and torque. MB matched what Lexus did 7 years ago.
A4? 2.0T is the only option. S4 starts at $48k and must be optioned ~$53k to match the options.
ATS has more HP and less torque. I'd call that one even.
G37? Let's not pretend it's on equal footing with any of these.
Does Lexus need a new engine? Yes. But not because the 2GR-FSE is unpowered. Because it'd be a deathblow to other brands given an objective car buyer considering the current alternatives.
The 335 doesn't qualify as it's a driver's race, and the internet shows that the IS350 wins the drag race the majority.
C350? Less HP and torque. MB matched what Lexus did 7 years ago.
A4? 2.0T is the only option. S4 starts at $48k and must be optioned ~$53k to match the options.
ATS has more HP and less torque. I'd call that one even.
G37? Let's not pretend it's on equal footing with any of these.
Does Lexus need a new engine? Yes. But not because the 2GR-FSE is unpowered. Because it'd be a deathblow to other brands given an objective car buyer considering the current alternatives.
If the 2GR-FSE is falling short anywhere right now it's not power or even power delivery but rather in fuel economy.
2013 BMW 335i Sedan 8AT: 23 mpg city, 33 mpg highway, 26 mpg combined
2013 Lexus IS350 Sedan 6AT: 19 mpg city, 27 mpg highway, 22 mpg combined
Huge difference. If the IS had an 8-speed automatic it might be able to do 1-2 mpg better, but the big advantage of direct-injected turbocharged engines is the fact that they do make so much of that torque just about anywhere, and can pull significantly taller gears as a result. That keeps average RPM lower, friction lower, and average load on the engine higher all of which means better fuel economy, on top of the fact that it's lower in displacement also. When I'm not flogging it, I've been amazed at the fuel economy I can get in my heaviest possible 4000lb E93 convertible, 31-32 mpg straight highway, and that's with the 6 speed automatic.
I do love the crisp feel of nicely tuned naturally aspirated engines and have no problem if Lexus wants to stick with those (it's nice that everybody offers something a bit different), but smaller direct-injected turbo engines do have plenty of advantages to them and BMW in particular is doing a very nice job of exploiting those advantages with their impressive fuel economy numbers.
#59
You know, it's weird, the 3IS doesn't look that great to me by itself, but when I've seen comparisons, like this one between it and the 3-series, or another one between it and the 2IS, it looks better to me.
This I agree with. The 2GR-FSE is a great little engine, but... it's time for an update.
This I agree with. The 2GR-FSE is a great little engine, but... it's time for an update.
I haven't been bashful with my criticism of the 3IS design (although I have said that it's starting to grow on me a little).
But when I compare it to, say, the newest 3 series, the 3 series looks totally bland and uninspired.
I may not like the 3IS right now but there's no question that it's an extremely bold and inspired design.
The thing is, I feel like moving the slider towards conservative by just 10% on the front would do wonders. For the rear tail lights, I wish they didn't extend down so much towards the sides. If they just cleaned that up a bit (again, heading 10% towards "conservative") it would do wonders. I think someone actually photoshopped the 3IS with the tail lights trimmed up and it looked much cleaner.
The side profile is fine for me.
The 3IS is bold and inspired and could've been aesthetically pleasing for me if they went just a bit more conservative.
#60
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My thoughts exactly.
I haven't been bashful with my criticism of the 3IS design (although I have said that it's starting to grow on me a little).
But when I compare it to, say, the newest 3 series, the 3 series looks totally bland and uninspired.
I may not like the 3IS right now but there's no question that it's an extremely bold and inspired design.
The thing is, I feel like moving the slider towards conservative by just 10% on the front would do wonders. For the rear tail lights, I wish they didn't extend down so much towards the sides. If they just cleaned that up a bit (again, heading 10% towards "conservative") it would do wonders. I think someone actually photoshopped the 3IS with the tail lights trimmed up and it looked much cleaner.
The side profile is fine for me.
The 3IS is bold and inspired and could've been aesthetically pleasing for me if they went just a bit more conservative.
I haven't been bashful with my criticism of the 3IS design (although I have said that it's starting to grow on me a little).
But when I compare it to, say, the newest 3 series, the 3 series looks totally bland and uninspired.
I may not like the 3IS right now but there's no question that it's an extremely bold and inspired design.
The thing is, I feel like moving the slider towards conservative by just 10% on the front would do wonders. For the rear tail lights, I wish they didn't extend down so much towards the sides. If they just cleaned that up a bit (again, heading 10% towards "conservative") it would do wonders. I think someone actually photoshopped the 3IS with the tail lights trimmed up and it looked much cleaner.
The side profile is fine for me.
The 3IS is bold and inspired and could've been aesthetically pleasing for me if they went just a bit more conservative.