Hey guys! I just had a question, why are the 15K, 30K, 60K, 90K, and so on are so important. I already know that they are to keep your Lexus running smooth. I want to show my dad this thread, because he likes to believes that all you need to do is do a basic service every 5K miles, he says all these big ticket services are a waste of money. He thinks the dealers just list them so they can take our money. I already know the dealers that are going to get my business are not sponsors of CL, so can guys list some reasons so I can brain wash him that they are important
Thanks in Advance
-MjThind

 

Overtime, every car is going to need new fluids, filters, plugs, chains, etc. You just can't get around that. I wouldn't skip out on things like that, but the inspections, rotations, and other minor stuff are things you can do yourself (or bring to a clean mechanic) and save a lot of money away from the dealer.

 

This statement applies to the ISX50 as thats what I drive but 15K is not a biggie but the 30K intervals will be a brake fluid flush which helps keep the lines and master cylinders in the best shape also air filters keep the engine breathing easy and also helps keeps you from burning more fuel. Every 60K is spark plugs which again helps keep the engine running smoothly and can also help keep MPG's at optimal levels. The only other major one is 100K doing a engine coolant flush to keep the water pump and radiator from corroding. In summary its a lot cheaper alternative to do the maintenance as recommend by the people who designed the car than it is to pay to have these items replaced when them fail. Just to summarize I'm at almost 80K miles now and have followed the manual "to the letter" but I do my own maintenance to save some money and I also don't trust dealerships to do it correctly or to my standards but I haven't spent much more than if I would of just done oil changes.

$15 x 5 for air filters every 15K --- $75
$12 x 6 for spark plugs at 60K --- $72
$6 x 4 for brake fluid every 30K --- $24

So in 80K miles I have spent approx $175 on stuff that would be considered non basic and in my opinion this stuff is basic and can be done in a few hours in the garage with very basic tools and know-how.

Hope that helps.

 

One thing you can do to help keep the dealer service honest is to read the list of service items recommended in the owner's manual for each service. If the dealer recommends a bunch of stuff not listed in the manual, you can ask why or just tell them no on those extras.

While the people who write the manuals may be somewhat sympathetic to the dealers' need for business, they are more likely concerned with making the correct recommendations for car maintenance so you'll buy another Lexus sometime.

 

There are a lot more wear-and-tear items than just engine oil. Brake fluid, pads and discs need to be replaced, spark plugs will eventually misfire and fail, timing belts will stretch or even break. Rubber hoses will become brittle and start leaking. Transmission fluid needs to be replaced (certain brands are particularly strict on this). All of these will eventually produce expensive catastrophic failures (especially timing belts and transmissions) and/or dangerous consequences (brakes or tires) if you don't replace the worn parts.

What makes maintenance expensive is the fact that modern engines have so many external accessories and components that the engine bays are crowded, requiring many hours of labor to check, remove and replace critical maintenance parts. I tried to do spark plugs (16 of them) on a Mercedes-Benz V8 and there just wasn't enough room to get my tools in and out. That's why if you can DIY and have the tools, working on out-of-warranty cars can save you thousands of USD over the life of the car.

A car is a complex machine and after being brainwashed by Japanese reliability, my Volkswagen ownership experience has taught me how many failure points there really are on a car, especially one with a more advanced powertrain.

Since maintenance is essential for a car to run properly, what we are more interested in is the "proper" time and mileage to replace these items, not necessarily the same time as when the dealer "recommends" it. The owner's manual is the best starting point, followed by (probably) online discussion board anecdotes.

 

Listed services are recommended but not necessary needed (at the time). Point in case, every driver is different thus their car may take more or less a beating than the next car which may or may not need service

 

While intervals vary among manufacturers and specific vehicles, in general, transmission/differential/brake /power-steering fluid and coolant anti-freeze should be changed at 30,000 mile intervals......less than that if the car isn't driven much and the old fluids have been in the car several years. Opinions vary (especially among service/repair-shops) as to the necessity of system-flushes in addition to simple drain/refills. IMO, flushes are usually a waste of money (service can be expensive enough even without them), and, if not done properly, can damage seals from excessive fluid-pressure. Engine oil, IMO, should be changed intially shortly after the break-in period (at least within the first few thousand miles), and, after that, with petroleum-based oil, anywhere from 3/3000 to 5/5000 intervals, depending on driving conditions (synthetic oil can probably go a little longer). I am not a believer in long oil drain-intervals, and am certainly not a believer in the electronic oil-sensors and computerized service-systems programmed into some modern upmarket vehicles. Even if the oil and viscosity itself doesn't break down (which may or may not happen with time), the package-additives in the oil do...additives that help prevent oxidation, scuffing, moisture-contamination, etc.....

 

If you want to know why, just check out the maintenance subforum...

This link will give you all the information on why all maintenance related items are important and some general recommendations regarding them...

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/mai...nance-faq.html

 

While I agree with all the posts that proper maintenance is vital to keeping your car running smoothly, a part of me agrees with your dad.

My dad owns 2002 RX300 with over 175k miles. He has only done basic service every 5k miles like you said (oil changes and air filters). No fluid flushes, no timing belt, no new spark plugs, nothing. The transmission had to be replaced recently, but other than that and an A/C recharge, his RX has been fine.

I think he is crazy, but he's got the mileage to prove it. He goes by "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," while I am more of a believer in preventive maintenance. Also, I have seen older Camrys go well over 150k miles on oil changes and air filters alone. I wouldn't recommend it, but I have definitely seen it.

 

Certain things are most definitely more important than others to longevity, but imagine if he had done transmission fluid exchanges... a couple hundred in preventive maintenance may have prevented a few thousand dollar transmission repair...

Define "fine" though too... another something that comes to mind is the coolant... even properly designed, even overbuilt cooling systems will degrade over time with poor coolant maintenance... I wouldn't buy that car, even if it was dead cheap if at least some maintenance hasn't been done... You sure he never replaced spark plugs either? 175k is a ton, even on iridium plugs, for them to not misfire like crazy...

What is crazy is that oil changes are actually the most expensive cost of maintenance on a modern vehicle, and it is good that people do those, but, they ignore some of the things that are just as crucial, like the trans fluid and coolant that are actually cheaper over the life of a vehicle...

Also, as far as the timing belt, at least it isn't an interference engine, but, say you took the vehicle on a trip and it broke or slipped in the middle of nowhere - what would the costs associated with the repair, temporary lodging, a missed occasion... Sure you can ignore all of this stuff, but what happens when it breaks? Wouldn't you have rather maintained it?

 

I absolutely agree with you on your points, but again, my dad has the miles to prove it. His RX doesn't overheat either, and he has definitely never replaced his spark plugs.

All my vehicles are maintained according to proper maintenance schedule. I just wanted to point out that Lexus and Toyotas last despite being abused.

 

Every wear and tear part has its life expectancy, it will need replacement.

 

I would say in general, you can get away with less maintenance on Toyota's and they still last, its crazy... No offense to GM but, if you don't change the coolant in them, you can easily expect at minimum a water pump replacement, most likely radiator and more...

Not saying his RX overheats, just saying if the coolant goes unchecked, no matter how good the coolant was when new, it starts to be come acidic and starts eating away at the aluminum inside the engine... Ford Taurus' in specific, I've pulled water pumps out and the impeller was completely missing because of this type of corrosion, its crazy... Again, don't normally see it with Toyota's, but as you obviously agree, its still a good idea to do the maintenance...

 

Not necessarily... most things, if they are maintained won't require replacement ever... Part of the problem with certain things though is that some things cant be maintained like they used to be, like ball joints and tie rod ends, etc...

 

you are both right. The manufacturer specified service items are important AND the dealers do try to take your money.

What some dealers do is add a bunch of nonsense to their own individual service packages. So you go to the dealer and you ask for the "30k or 60k" service and you think you are asking for the specific manufacturer specified service items, but you what you actually get is what the individual dealer includes in to their own service package.

Try this: Look at the specific manual for your car and write down all the items that are recommended for a specific mileage. Get the list from the manufacturer - not the dealer.

Take that list to the dealer. Ask them: "How much is the X miles service?" Then say, "no I don't want that. I only want these specific items" and give them the list and ask them how much that will cost. It will vary from dealer to dealer to dealer, but usually requesting just the specific manufacturer recommended items will be less than the dealer recommended package which includes more stuff that isn't recommended by the manufacturer.